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The biggest thing that I feel like these initiatives always miss is that the onus on fixing the problem of gender equality in tech shouldn't be on the companies

by MPetitt 12y ago

The biggest thing that I feel like these initiatives always miss is that the onus on fixing the problem of gender equality in tech shouldn't be on the companies at this point in the game (not to say that won't change), but on getting more women interested in tech in the first place. Overwhelmingly women don't seem to care about the technology field. We need to focus less on bending over backwards to find appropriate female candidates from such a small pool, and focus more on what organizations like Girls who Code[0] who are trying to get more young women interested in technology. Once there is actually a sizable amount of women involved in the field, then maybe the conversation over discrimination or lack of diversity may be worth having. But until then I cant just make female engineers poof into the interview room like magic and thats not for lack of trying. [0] http://girlswhocode.com/ http://girlswhocode.com/

stonewhite 12y ago
Exactly. It is anectodal but, every women who works in our office (and mostly on other offices I see) is either business related, or semi-techie (QA Engineer). We just can't find any women coders that can actually pass a basic competency challenge for more than two years.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Transcendence42 12y ago
  Then you're incompetent with regards to recruiting.
acbart 12y ago
This is a chicken-and-the-egg problem, so you can't narrow your focus, but instead approach it from multiple angles. Women aren't encouraged to get involved in tech because they can't find good role models, and there are no good role models because women aren't being encouraged to get involved with tech. It's important to have initatives like this to get more role models so we can encourage more women and get more role models to encourage more women ...
- gfodor 12y ago
  Citation needed. If I was going to go out on a limb, I'd say a large part of the reason women aren't drawn to tech at a young age is because it requires you sit alone in front of a computer talking to it for long stretches of time instead of interacting with other people, but I have as much evidence as you do that it has to do with a lack of role models. (I got into programming well before I knew any famous programmers.)
  - Arnor 12y ago
    Surely both of these are factors. I would suggest: 1. That at an early age, programming role models in particular aren't as important as STEM role models in general. It's certainly anecdotal, but I moved towards programming as a practical job that somewhat satisfied my broader interest in science and engineering. 2. It might be beneficial to girls and boys alike if technology was taught more socially. Certainly tinkering and reading alone is important, but maker clubs and the like are an extraordinary way to get young people involved. As a bonus, they help with teamwork which is another big issue for (many) tech companies.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - KuraFire 12y ago
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you should stop going out on a limb, as you're clearly very poorly informed when it comes to these matters. But here's a citation for you: http://economixcomix.com/2014/04/20/neil-degrasse-tyson-on-gender-and-race-in-science-transcribed/ http://economixcomix.com/2014/04/20/neil-degrasse-tyson-on-g...
    - gfodor 12y ago
      I clicked on that expecting some kind of study to refute my random theory, which I'd find interesting, but it's a high level vague theory from Neil DeGrasse Tyson about the evidence of bias in society. (Something we should give approximately the same weight as any theory based on anecdotes and personal experience.) He'd be the last person to tell you his observations and this anecdote should be seriously used as a citation to lend yourself weight in an argument about the source of gender bias in tech.
danilocampos 12y ago
Obsessing over the pipeline is a handwave that doesn't address the outsize attrition afflicting actual women in current technical roles. To say nothing of how hostile the industry leadership can be to women (cf Richards/SendGrid, GitHub, Tinder, Urban Airship).
sp332 12y ago
One of the major things that discourage women from entering tech is a lack of role models. So companies can have a big impact right now by hiring more women.
- mkr-hn 12y ago
  I can't speak for women, but I would have to think hard if companies put out calls for gay applicants. Do I want to be "the diversity hire?" I don't know if anyone inside or outside the company would take me seriously. Women might have a similar thought process when these kinds of initiatives happen.
  - sp332 12y ago
    "Etsy’s seen the most success when there’s either zero or two women engineers on a team. If there’s only one, she’s a woman engineer as opposed to just an engineer." http://firstround.com/article/How-Etsy-Grew-their-Number-of-Female-Engineers-by-500-in-One-Year http://firstround.com/article/How-Etsy-Grew-their-Number-of-...

by MPetitt 12y ago

stonewhite 12y ago

Exactly. It is anectodal but, every women who works in our office (and mostly on other offices I see) is either business related, or semi-techie (QA Engineer). We just can't find any women coders that can actually pass a basic competency challenge for more than two years.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Transcendence42 12y ago
Then you're incompetent with regards to recruiting.

acbart 12y ago

This is a chicken-and-the-egg problem, so you can't narrow your focus, but instead approach it from multiple angles. Women aren't encouraged to get involved in tech because they can't find good role models, and there are no good role models because women aren't being encouraged to get involved with tech. It's important to have initatives like this to get more role models so we can encourage more women and get more role models to encourage more women ...

gfodor 12y ago
Citation needed. If I was going to go out on a limb, I'd say a large part of the reason women aren't drawn to tech at a young age is because it requires you sit alone in front of a computer talking to it for long stretches of time instead of interacting with other people, but I have as much evidence as you do that it has to do with a lack of role models. (I got into programming well before I knew any famous programmers.)
- Arnor 12y ago
  Surely both of these are factors. I would suggest: 1. That at an early age, programming role models in particular aren't as important as STEM role models in general. It's certainly anecdotal, but I moved towards programming as a practical job that somewhat satisfied my broader interest in science and engineering. 2. It might be beneficial to girls and boys alike if technology was taught more socially. Certainly tinkering and reading alone is important, but maker clubs and the like are an extraordinary way to get young people involved. As a bonus, they help with teamwork which is another big issue for (many) tech companies.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- KuraFire 12y ago
  I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you should stop going out on a limb, as you're clearly very poorly informed when it comes to these matters. But here's a citation for you: http://economixcomix.com/2014/04/20/neil-degrasse-tyson-on-gender-and-race-in-science-transcribed/ http://economixcomix.com/2014/04/20/neil-degrasse-tyson-on-g...
  - gfodor 12y ago
    I clicked on that expecting some kind of study to refute my random theory, which I'd find interesting, but it's a high level vague theory from Neil DeGrasse Tyson about the evidence of bias in society. (Something we should give approximately the same weight as any theory based on anecdotes and personal experience.) He'd be the last person to tell you his observations and this anecdote should be seriously used as a citation to lend yourself weight in an argument about the source of gender bias in tech.

danilocampos 12y ago

Obsessing over the pipeline is a handwave that doesn't address the outsize attrition afflicting actual women in current technical roles. To say nothing of how hostile the industry leadership can be to women (cf Richards/SendGrid, GitHub, Tinder, Urban Airship).

sp332 12y ago

One of the major things that discourage women from entering tech is a lack of role models. So companies can have a big impact right now by hiring more women.

mkr-hn 12y ago
I can't speak for women, but I would have to think hard if companies put out calls for gay applicants. Do I want to be "the diversity hire?" I don't know if anyone inside or outside the company would take me seriously. Women might have a similar thought process when these kinds of initiatives happen.
- sp332 12y ago
  "Etsy’s seen the most success when there’s either zero or two women engineers on a team. If there’s only one, she’s a woman engineer as opposed to just an engineer." http://firstround.com/article/How-Etsy-Grew-their-Number-of-Female-Engineers-by-500-in-One-Year http://firstround.com/article/How-Etsy-Grew-their-Number-of-...