4 ms·

CISPA is back with a new name

259 points by fur0n 12y ago

tool 12y ago
"Places online where you can expect privacy: Facebook" I'd rather be spied upon by NSA any day over Facebook. Atleast then I know how my information is being used. But oh right, NSA doesn't have a website where you can show off your socio economic status.
- Ygg2 12y ago
  Between having my hand blown off and sawed off, I'd prefer neither.
- VMG 12y ago
  > Atleast then I know how my information is being used. No
- PhasmaFelis 12y ago
  Facebook's never imprisoned or tortured anyone that I'm aware of. Maybe that'll be in a future rollout.
  - Ygg2 12y ago
    Yup, just enabled those that do. Good for them. Keeping their hands clean.
Andrenid 12y ago
This is the problem. It's less effort for them to keep bringing it back under different names/guises, than it is for the general public to continue fighting it, continue raising enough attention against it, etc. People are lazy. You can rile them up to get critical mass for an action every now and then, but you can't sustain it forever.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  This wouldn't be as big of a problem as it is for both the population who has to stay extremely vigilant (more than they want to) just so they don't pass something quickly and in secret/when no one pays attention (like at holidays), and also the Supreme Court wouldn't be barraged with bad laws from Congress (and these laws don't even reach them for decades sometimes), if US was using a Constitutional Court. I think having a Constitutional Court that verifies every single bill that passes through Congress and administration, and has final say on whether a bill is going to become law or not, would be a decent solution for an out of control Congress and administration that don't even care if their laws are Constitutional or not anymore. This is not to "replace" the Supreme Court, or any other Court. this is in addition to them. A Constitutional Court could filter out a lot of the bad bills, before they ever had to reach the Supreme Court for their unconstitutionality. With a Constitutional Court something like the Patriot Act or FAA might've never passed, and we wouldn't have to endure it for 20 years before it even reaches the Supreme Court, to decide its constitutionality. But what happens if a Constitutional Court allows a "bad bill" to pass anyway, you ask? Well, nothing different than right now. It goes out there, and eventually someone sues over it, and it goes through the same process up to the Supreme Court, if it's that bad. The point of the Constitutional Court wouldn't be to "set a precedent" but to filter out at least 90 percent of bad/unconstitutional bills coming out from Congress. Other than that, everything else will work as normal. The system is already used in many European countries, and I think it would work well for US, too. Without it a lot of EU countries would probably have a lot worse justice system, since they don't even have the precedent thing, which means that if a lot more bad bills were allowed to go through, they would have a lot more judges split on the decisions, and more unconstitutional laws would be allowed to continue for more years. But the Constitutional Court filters out most of those, so the judges can only be split on a few of the bad ones.
  - baddox 12y ago
    I'm skeptical that adding another layer for the bill to pass through will cause any meaningful improvement, unless there is some clever way to align the incentives of the individuals in the layer more closely with the people.
  - 12y ago
switch007 12y ago
The UK is also passing "emergency" data retention legislation just before Parliament closes for summer and before the data is deleted. http://dataretentionandinvestigatorypowersbill.uk http://dataretentionandinvestigatorypowersbill.uk
- fredley 12y ago
  I just checked my MP on Twitter. So far one person has tweeted to her about it. It makes me think the levels of apathy are just too high here for anybody to make a difference.
  - switch007 12y ago
    Well, I contacted my MP. I'm not holding my breath with this voting record: * Voted very strongly against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability * Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT * Voted very strongly against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices * Voted very strongly for reducing central government funding of local government * Voted a mixture of for and against a wholly elected House of Lords
AlyssaRowan 12y ago
Just so you know, they're pulling the same kind of shit over here in the UK: "emergency powers" being pushed through with barely a debate by an unelected PM, his lapdog deputy in the Lib Dems, and a weak opposition, with tripartisan support thanks to the party whips. No one even really knows or understands what they're agreeing to, the "temporary" shouldn't fool anyone as it can be extended (and it would be an 'emergency' not to, wouldn't it?) - and the real kicker is that the "emergency" is the EU courts have ruled the UK's existing mass data retention laws contravene our human rights, so the UK Government's response is to… pass another mass data retention law as a matter of urgency, explicitly before ISPs start deleting (unlawfully collected) data. What the fuck. Sometimes politicians just disgust me. We could use some help over here too - Pirate Party UK, maybe, or the Green Party?
- __P 12y ago
  Could an alternative DNS system fix this? Tor for DNS that both masked the lookup and the resulting IP would stop any type of filtering/blocking/take down etc? Coupled with https, to stop packet inspection?
  - Sharlin 12y ago
    Social and political problems are rarely fixed with engineering solutions.
    - pyre 12y ago
      Well, they are rarely fixed by engineering solutions that just try to hide the activity / behavior from view, and ignore the fact that it's a social/political problem. I can easily come up with 'engineering solutions' to solve social / political problems, but it's usually paired with some sort of social/political action (e.g. engineering cheap weapons to supply a violent revolution).
    - AlyssaRowan 12y ago
      This. They can help mitigate the damage, and be a force for change, but - to paraphrase Schneier - these systems are robust legally, technically and politically - we need to fight on all fronts to defeat them, and just winning once won't do it, we have to keep fighting back against abusive laws, systems and politicians because they will keep trying until they get whatever they want, at every stage. We can't magic rogue institutions, politicians and laws away with maths. But it can have an impact on the practical damage they can do.
KhalPanda 12y ago
The infographic around half way down the page is really well put together.
zactral 12y ago
The problem is that for people living outside the US, we already have the right side of the infographic. All our data is vacuumed in and used with impunity and nobody gives a damn whether we want it or not. Most of the discussion so far has been about the circumstances and illegality of spying after US citizens. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is left watching like second or third class human beings who can't have _any_ realistic expectations with regard to having privacy of their data used by US companies (which dominate the market due to several reasons)
uptown 12y ago
The infographic mentions that "Corporate lobbyists have spent $605 million to get this legislation passed". These pages show which corporations are supporting this (links towards the bottom): http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/total-contributions http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/tota... http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/total-contributions http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/tota...
snarfy 12y ago
Hey California, why is Feinstein still in office? SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, CISPA v2, now CISA.
- cheepin 12y ago
  because voting her out would likely require voting in a republican, which doesn't seem overly likely against an incumbent.
  - snarfy 12y ago
    This makes sense, depressing, apathy-inducing sense.

259 points by fur0n 12y ago

tool 12y ago

"Places online where you can expect privacy: Facebook" I'd rather be spied upon by NSA any day over Facebook. Atleast then I know how my information is being used. But oh right, NSA doesn't have a website where you can show off your socio economic status.

Ygg2 12y ago
Between having my hand blown off and sawed off, I'd prefer neither.
VMG 12y ago
> Atleast then I know how my information is being used. No
PhasmaFelis 12y ago
Facebook's never imprisoned or tortured anyone that I'm aware of. Maybe that'll be in a future rollout.
- Ygg2 12y ago
  Yup, just enabled those that do. Good for them. Keeping their hands clean.

Andrenid 12y ago

This is the problem. It's less effort for them to keep bringing it back under different names/guises, than it is for the general public to continue fighting it, continue raising enough attention against it, etc. People are lazy. You can rile them up to get critical mass for an action every now and then, but you can't sustain it forever.

higherpurpose 12y ago
This wouldn't be as big of a problem as it is for both the population who has to stay extremely vigilant (more than they want to) just so they don't pass something quickly and in secret/when no one pays attention (like at holidays), and also the Supreme Court wouldn't be barraged with bad laws from Congress (and these laws don't even reach them for decades sometimes), if US was using a Constitutional Court. I think having a Constitutional Court that verifies every single bill that passes through Congress and administration, and has final say on whether a bill is going to become law or not, would be a decent solution for an out of control Congress and administration that don't even care if their laws are Constitutional or not anymore. This is not to "replace" the Supreme Court, or any other Court. this is in addition to them. A Constitutional Court could filter out a lot of the bad bills, before they ever had to reach the Supreme Court for their unconstitutionality. With a Constitutional Court something like the Patriot Act or FAA might've never passed, and we wouldn't have to endure it for 20 years before it even reaches the Supreme Court, to decide its constitutionality. But what happens if a Constitutional Court allows a "bad bill" to pass anyway, you ask? Well, nothing different than right now. It goes out there, and eventually someone sues over it, and it goes through the same process up to the Supreme Court, if it's that bad. The point of the Constitutional Court wouldn't be to "set a precedent" but to filter out at least 90 percent of bad/unconstitutional bills coming out from Congress. Other than that, everything else will work as normal. The system is already used in many European countries, and I think it would work well for US, too. Without it a lot of EU countries would probably have a lot worse justice system, since they don't even have the precedent thing, which means that if a lot more bad bills were allowed to go through, they would have a lot more judges split on the decisions, and more unconstitutional laws would be allowed to continue for more years. But the Constitutional Court filters out most of those, so the judges can only be split on a few of the bad ones.
- baddox 12y ago
  I'm skeptical that adding another layer for the bill to pass through will cause any meaningful improvement, unless there is some clever way to align the incentives of the individuals in the layer more closely with the people.
- 12y ago

switch007 12y ago

The UK is also passing "emergency" data retention legislation just before Parliament closes for summer and before the data is deleted. http://dataretentionandinvestigatorypowersbill.uk http://dataretentionandinvestigatorypowersbill.uk

fredley 12y ago
I just checked my MP on Twitter. So far one person has tweeted to her about it. It makes me think the levels of apathy are just too high here for anybody to make a difference.
- switch007 12y ago
  Well, I contacted my MP. I'm not holding my breath with this voting record: * Voted very strongly against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability * Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT * Voted very strongly against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices * Voted very strongly for reducing central government funding of local government * Voted a mixture of for and against a wholly elected House of Lords

AlyssaRowan 12y ago

Just so you know, they're pulling the same kind of shit over here in the UK: "emergency powers" being pushed through with barely a debate by an unelected PM, his lapdog deputy in the Lib Dems, and a weak opposition, with tripartisan support thanks to the party whips. No one even really knows or understands what they're agreeing to, the "temporary" shouldn't fool anyone as it can be extended (and it would be an 'emergency' not to, wouldn't it?) - and the real kicker is that the "emergency" is the EU courts have ruled the UK's existing mass data retention laws contravene our human rights, so the UK Government's response is to… pass another mass data retention law as a matter of urgency, explicitly before ISPs start deleting (unlawfully collected) data. What the fuck. Sometimes politicians just disgust me. We could use some help over here too - Pirate Party UK, maybe, or the Green Party?

__P 12y ago
Could an alternative DNS system fix this? Tor for DNS that both masked the lookup and the resulting IP would stop any type of filtering/blocking/take down etc? Coupled with https, to stop packet inspection?
- Sharlin 12y ago
  Social and political problems are rarely fixed with engineering solutions.
  - pyre 12y ago
    Well, they are rarely fixed by engineering solutions that just try to hide the activity / behavior from view, and ignore the fact that it's a social/political problem. I can easily come up with 'engineering solutions' to solve social / political problems, but it's usually paired with some sort of social/political action (e.g. engineering cheap weapons to supply a violent revolution).
  - AlyssaRowan 12y ago
    This. They can help mitigate the damage, and be a force for change, but - to paraphrase Schneier - these systems are robust legally, technically and politically - we need to fight on all fronts to defeat them, and just winning once won't do it, we have to keep fighting back against abusive laws, systems and politicians because they will keep trying until they get whatever they want, at every stage. We can't magic rogue institutions, politicians and laws away with maths. But it can have an impact on the practical damage they can do.

KhalPanda 12y ago

The infographic around half way down the page is really well put together.

zactral 12y ago

The problem is that for people living outside the US, we already have the right side of the infographic. All our data is vacuumed in and used with impunity and nobody gives a damn whether we want it or not. Most of the discussion so far has been about the circumstances and illegality of spying after US citizens. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is left watching like second or third class human beings who can't have _any_ realistic expectations with regard to having privacy of their data used by US companies (which dominate the market due to several reasons)

uptown 12y ago

The infographic mentions that "Corporate lobbyists have spent $605 million to get this legislation passed". These pages show which corporations are supporting this (links towards the bottom): http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/total-contributions http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/tota... http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/total-contributions http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/113-hr-624/1202831/tota...

snarfy 12y ago

Hey California, why is Feinstein still in office? SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, CISPA v2, now CISA.

cheepin 12y ago
because voting her out would likely require voting in a republican, which doesn't seem overly likely against an incumbent.
- snarfy 12y ago
  This makes sense, depressing, apathy-inducing sense.