4 ms·

I really hope Colin finishes this as I've always thought Lisp would be a better beginner language if there was a book like mine for it. You've either got "The

by zedshaw 12y ago

I really hope Colin finishes this as I've always thought Lisp would be a better beginner language if there was a book like mine for it. You've either got "The Little Schemer" series, which is annoyingly written for little kids but close to the style, or you have giant academic tomes that only hard core geeks would bother reading. A "trainer" book like mine would definitely solve this gap. The intro is a little bit copied but it's fine since he is keeping to the idea and the "rules" I have, but could be nicer if it was in his own voice more. Who knows, maybe he does write like me a lot or he's just ultra inspired. The big reason I say people should use their own words, apart from copyright, is that if you're writing one of these books for a programming language you love then your words will express that better. You'll say things that come from your community and culture, and you'll give away a sense of what you like about that language. When people copy what I say the prose comes out obviously not by them and not for that language. Anyway, this is pretty cool and I hope he works on it some more.

correnos 12y ago
Practical Common Lisp is a very good introduction. It's very much targeted at competant non-academics.
taeric 12y ago
http://landoflisp.com/ http://landoflisp.com/ is a nicely informal book on learning lisp that is easy to get into. Pretty sure I've seen it highlighted here a few times.
- serf 12y ago
  I like Land of Lisp, and I own the ebook+paperback, but I don't think that it's well suited to beginning programmers. I think the "let's make a game" approach actually works better for programmers who are coming from a different language and trying to understand concept translations, rather than novel concepts themselves. edit : I can't reply to you, but re-read what I said. I am making the point that I believe Land of Lisp to be for people coming from other languages, whereas I think that "learn X the hard way" is better for people new to programming altogether. The parent of my reply is pointing out to zedshaw that "Land of Lisp" is a good beginners book. I am adding that it's my opinion that it's a good "beginner at lisp" book, and not an overall "good-for-beginner-programmers" book.
  - binarycrusader 12y ago
    Uh, the land of lisp has the let's make a game approach as well. I'm not sure I understand what aspect you're talking about.
    - binarycrusader 12y ago
      I'm not sure why my comment was downvoted, but having read and gone through over half of the Land of Lisp personally, I can factually state that it does indeed have multiple game exercises involved. To quote from the book page: Along the way you’ll create (and play) games like Wizard Adventure, a text adventure with a whiskey-soaked twist, and Grand Theft Wumpus, the most violent version of Hunt the Wumpus the world has ever seen. http://www.nostarch.com/lisp.htm#toc http://www.nostarch.com/lisp.htm#toc If someone would like to argue that it does not have a "game approach", I would like to see the specific reasoning as to why.
  - taeric 12y ago
    I see your point, though I'm not sure I agree. I do think you have to have an interest in games. At the least, you can't be turned off by them. Though, I have absolutely nothing to back up my thought on this. Would be curious to see any studies or other such on these thoughts. Also, apologies for the edit. My main thought was more for the informal nature of Land of Lisp. That is, it isn't "high theory" written for experts, nor is it written for kids.
vilhelm_s 12y ago
I don't think The Little Schemer is intended for young kids. The preface says > The Little LISPer is based on lecture notes from a two-week ``quickie'' introduction to Lisp for students with no previous programming experience and an admitted dislike for anything quantitative. Many of these students were preparing for careers in public affairs. I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds university-level?
- m0nastic 12y ago
  I actually liked the Little Schemer a lot, specifically the way it's laid out with just questions in one column and answers in another (it helped establish a rhythm that made it nice to go through); but I did find the tone a little "young". All the examples are about food, and there's cartoons littered throughout. There's a bunch of books that seem to be of that tone (Learn you a Haskell, Land of Lisp, Realm of Racket, Learn You Some Erlang), and I found myself instinctively recoiling from all of them (I haven't read the Erlang book, but it seems very much in that style). I think it's important to have lots of different styles of books for learning a language, because I think different people respond better to different approaches, but selfishly, I wish every language had an equivalent to "ANSI Common Lisp" (by this site's benefactor emeritus) and Real World Haskell. I am also a big fan of the way Zed chose to lay out his books.
deleted 12y ago
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by zedshaw 12y ago

correnos 12y ago

Practical Common Lisp is a very good introduction. It's very much targeted at competant non-academics.

taeric 12y ago

http://landoflisp.com/ http://landoflisp.com/ is a nicely informal book on learning lisp that is easy to get into. Pretty sure I've seen it highlighted here a few times.

serf 12y ago
I like Land of Lisp, and I own the ebook+paperback, but I don't think that it's well suited to beginning programmers. I think the "let's make a game" approach actually works better for programmers who are coming from a different language and trying to understand concept translations, rather than novel concepts themselves. edit : I can't reply to you, but re-read what I said. I am making the point that I believe Land of Lisp to be for people coming from other languages, whereas I think that "learn X the hard way" is better for people new to programming altogether. The parent of my reply is pointing out to zedshaw that "Land of Lisp" is a good beginners book. I am adding that it's my opinion that it's a good "beginner at lisp" book, and not an overall "good-for-beginner-programmers" book.
- binarycrusader 12y ago
  Uh, the land of lisp has the let's make a game approach as well. I'm not sure I understand what aspect you're talking about.
  - binarycrusader 12y ago
    I'm not sure why my comment was downvoted, but having read and gone through over half of the Land of Lisp personally, I can factually state that it does indeed have multiple game exercises involved. To quote from the book page: Along the way you’ll create (and play) games like Wizard Adventure, a text adventure with a whiskey-soaked twist, and Grand Theft Wumpus, the most violent version of Hunt the Wumpus the world has ever seen. http://www.nostarch.com/lisp.htm#toc http://www.nostarch.com/lisp.htm#toc If someone would like to argue that it does not have a "game approach", I would like to see the specific reasoning as to why.
- taeric 12y ago
  I see your point, though I'm not sure I agree. I do think you have to have an interest in games. At the least, you can't be turned off by them. Though, I have absolutely nothing to back up my thought on this. Would be curious to see any studies or other such on these thoughts. Also, apologies for the edit. My main thought was more for the informal nature of Land of Lisp. That is, it isn't "high theory" written for experts, nor is it written for kids.

vilhelm_s 12y ago

I don't think The Little Schemer is intended for young kids. The preface says > The Little LISPer is based on lecture notes from a two-week ``quickie'' introduction to Lisp for students with no previous programming experience and an admitted dislike for anything quantitative. Many of these students were preparing for careers in public affairs. I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds university-level?

m0nastic 12y ago
I actually liked the Little Schemer a lot, specifically the way it's laid out with just questions in one column and answers in another (it helped establish a rhythm that made it nice to go through); but I did find the tone a little "young". All the examples are about food, and there's cartoons littered throughout. There's a bunch of books that seem to be of that tone (Learn you a Haskell, Land of Lisp, Realm of Racket, Learn You Some Erlang), and I found myself instinctively recoiling from all of them (I haven't read the Erlang book, but it seems very much in that style). I think it's important to have lots of different styles of books for learning a language, because I think different people respond better to different approaches, but selfishly, I wish every language had an equivalent to "ANSI Common Lisp" (by this site's benefactor emeritus) and Real World Haskell. I am also a big fan of the way Zed chose to lay out his books.

deleted 12y ago

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