8 ms·

Silent Circle Launches Global Encrypted Calling Plan

133 points by mike-cardwell 12y ago

foobarqux 12y ago
Do I need a blackphone for this?
- tetrep 12y ago
  The lack of any mention of supported platforms and the remarks about selling phones in last paragraph seem to indicate as much. "We snuck in the back door, by offering the most secure commercial device system on the market. We don’t want to sell 100 million phones, we simply want to own the secure enterprise and prosumer market."
  - JshWright 12y ago
    The client apps are available on both Android and iOS, in their respective app stores.
- privong 12y ago
  No, it appears they have apps for their products: https://silentcircle.com/#apps https://silentcircle.com/#apps
Cyph0n 12y ago
I don't get it. If the plan covers domestic and international calls and includes no roaming charges shouldn't they be providing each customer with a SIM? Or is it similar to Skype in that you need an internet connection? It still looks very interesting either way.
- JshWright 12y ago
  Yes, it requires a data connection (either baseband or WiFi). Even still, a prepaid data-only SIM is pretty cheap most places, and you can continue using your number wherever you are.
MichaelGG 12y ago
I love how they talk about how they don't have any infrastructure costs and can outmaneuver "major telecoms" but then gleefully talk about connecting to the PSTN. I'd also like to have them publish and guarantee exactly what they mean by "encrypted to the PSTN". Are they guaranteeing they have TDM access in every destination, and that their TDM access doesn't get sent out over IP? Or do they really mean the run IPSec to a handful of VoIP carriers and call that the PSTN? Not to mention, encrypted to the PSTN solves what, exactly? How's it really any different than using my cell phone? The whole blog post is written in a very odd, feels-like-snake-oil manner. They compare to Skype's plan, but on their homepage, their $12 plan has only 100 minutes. Skype's plan is "unlimited" (subject to fair use). So I'm not sure why they'd bother comparing the two - they don't seem the same? The zRTP and member-to-member stuff is probably done correctly, but the rest of it feels very hype-like.
- tetrep 12y ago
  >I'd also like to have them publish and guarantee exactly what they mean by "encrypted to the PSTN" If you look at the infographic from the article you'll see that if it's not end-to-end then it's only to their servers. The crypto will flow from Caller<->Callee or Caller<->Server. I think it's safe to assume that their server then connects to the PSTN, hence "encrypted to the PSTN."
  - JshWright 12y ago
    Precisely. The PSTN leg is routed via iBasis. http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Silent-Circle-Announces-Strategic-European-Carrier-Partnership-With-KPN-20140219-page2#.U78gA1a7Fbw http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Silent-Circle-... Disclaimer that I feel like I repeat too often but is probably still warranted: I am a Silent Circle employee.
    - bellerocky 12y ago
      I wonder if it would be better opsec for security oriented companies to have policies that encourage employees not to reveal their employer. You have 3000+ karma with a significant posting history, which I think translates into an increased surface area for social engineering attacks. The more someone knows about you the more they could either find a way through you into the company, and eventually on to the servers. Like for instance you might reveal something in your posts that could be used to find out more about you online and eventually get access to your amazon account, or paypal account, or your gmail account and use this to get access to your work email or enough information to impersonate you or impersonate someone who pretends to know you, until eventually they get in and find access to things Silent Circle doesn't want people to access. Relevant: http://xkcd.com/538/ http://xkcd.com/538/
quinndupont 12y ago
Really wish they offered pay-as-you-go plans... I have no need to a $10/month extra expense, but I would love to occasionally use this service if it was based on usage (although there is surely some expense for Silent Circle here).
- dublinben 12y ago
  You can make encrypted calls for free using an application like CSipSimple and ZRTP. Calls to another SIP user are completely free. Calls to a landline are $0.01 with many VOIP providers.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dboy1612 12y ago
Huh, it's an interesting service that's for sure, I'm just more lost about some of it's subject. Call me stupid, but "no roaming charges" are available for any type of "VOIP" service, not specifically to them. If I live in the US and travel to Europe, and want to make a call with what I'm guessing is going to be a US Data Only Sim on a standard Android phone, I'm going to be charged extra, right? And if using their Blackphone, would it remove the need for US Data Sim? Just lost, the blog post didn't get too specific in those details. Can't beat all these telecom competitors listed if you're dependant on them in some way for your apps on native phones.
beedogs 12y ago
Better get the lawyers ready for the inevitable "national security" letters.
bites 12y ago
If call will go to telecommunication network i can guarantee that call can be intercepted. It is like normal call and those can be listened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_gateway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_gateway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception
carlob 12y ago
I really want these guys to succeed, but I have to say the comparison with skype is misleading to say the least: Skype @ $13.99 gives you unlimited calls to 63 countries for landlines and 8 countries for mobile Silent Circle @ $12.95 gives you 100 minutes in admittedly many more places. The crazy thing is that there is absolutely no need for them to market themselves as the cheap option, when they should be focusing more on privacy.
xorcist 12y ago
What is this marketing gibberish and why is Zimmermann (of PGP fame) connected to this? I first thought that it was cool they released a mass market product that encrypts PSTN communications. This is something that speciality phones do that carry a hefty pricetag and are two generations behind technologically. But on a second reading it says "encrypted TO the PSTN". What does that even mean? You could say that about every GSM phone if you wanted! Also "secure virtual operator". Are they a virtual operator or not? In which countries? Certainly not the 41 countries listed above, even if that's what they want you to believe. "No roaming charges". Yeah, that'd be great. But for what and where? No idea. After making my way though the text I want to dismiss this, but Zimmermann is in. So what's the deal here?
dan_bk 12y ago
Real solutions must be entirely de-centralized and open-source. Anything else is bandaid at best.
ZoFreX 12y ago
This does sound really cool, and I'm genuinely excited that there is a market for secure communications, but this solution isn't for me. I simply can't trust something in this field that is closed source. For anyone else who feels the same way but likes the sound of this, I'd recommend looking at TextSecure and RedPhone.

133 points by mike-cardwell 12y ago

foobarqux 12y ago

Do I need a blackphone for this?

tetrep 12y ago
The lack of any mention of supported platforms and the remarks about selling phones in last paragraph seem to indicate as much. "We snuck in the back door, by offering the most secure commercial device system on the market. We don’t want to sell 100 million phones, we simply want to own the secure enterprise and prosumer market."
- JshWright 12y ago
  The client apps are available on both Android and iOS, in their respective app stores.
privong 12y ago
No, it appears they have apps for their products: https://silentcircle.com/#apps https://silentcircle.com/#apps

Cyph0n 12y ago

I don't get it. If the plan covers domestic and international calls and includes no roaming charges shouldn't they be providing each customer with a SIM? Or is it similar to Skype in that you need an internet connection? It still looks very interesting either way.

JshWright 12y ago
Yes, it requires a data connection (either baseband or WiFi). Even still, a prepaid data-only SIM is pretty cheap most places, and you can continue using your number wherever you are.

MichaelGG 12y ago

I love how they talk about how they don't have any infrastructure costs and can outmaneuver "major telecoms" but then gleefully talk about connecting to the PSTN. I'd also like to have them publish and guarantee exactly what they mean by "encrypted to the PSTN". Are they guaranteeing they have TDM access in every destination, and that their TDM access doesn't get sent out over IP? Or do they really mean the run IPSec to a handful of VoIP carriers and call that the PSTN? Not to mention, encrypted to the PSTN solves what, exactly? How's it really any different than using my cell phone? The whole blog post is written in a very odd, feels-like-snake-oil manner. They compare to Skype's plan, but on their homepage, their $12 plan has only 100 minutes. Skype's plan is "unlimited" (subject to fair use). So I'm not sure why they'd bother comparing the two - they don't seem the same? The zRTP and member-to-member stuff is probably done correctly, but the rest of it feels very hype-like.

tetrep 12y ago
>I'd also like to have them publish and guarantee exactly what they mean by "encrypted to the PSTN" If you look at the infographic from the article you'll see that if it's not end-to-end then it's only to their servers. The crypto will flow from Caller<->Callee or Caller<->Server. I think it's safe to assume that their server then connects to the PSTN, hence "encrypted to the PSTN."
- JshWright 12y ago
  Precisely. The PSTN leg is routed via iBasis. http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Silent-Circle-Announces-Strategic-European-Carrier-Partnership-With-KPN-20140219-page2#.U78gA1a7Fbw http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Silent-Circle-... Disclaimer that I feel like I repeat too often but is probably still warranted: I am a Silent Circle employee.
  - bellerocky 12y ago
    I wonder if it would be better opsec for security oriented companies to have policies that encourage employees not to reveal their employer. You have 3000+ karma with a significant posting history, which I think translates into an increased surface area for social engineering attacks. The more someone knows about you the more they could either find a way through you into the company, and eventually on to the servers. Like for instance you might reveal something in your posts that could be used to find out more about you online and eventually get access to your amazon account, or paypal account, or your gmail account and use this to get access to your work email or enough information to impersonate you or impersonate someone who pretends to know you, until eventually they get in and find access to things Silent Circle doesn't want people to access. Relevant: http://xkcd.com/538/ http://xkcd.com/538/

quinndupont 12y ago

Really wish they offered pay-as-you-go plans... I have no need to a $10/month extra expense, but I would love to occasionally use this service if it was based on usage (although there is surely some expense for Silent Circle here).

dublinben 12y ago
You can make encrypted calls for free using an application like CSipSimple and ZRTP. Calls to another SIP user are completely free. Calls to a landline are $0.01 with many VOIP providers.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dboy1612 12y ago

Huh, it's an interesting service that's for sure, I'm just more lost about some of it's subject. Call me stupid, but "no roaming charges" are available for any type of "VOIP" service, not specifically to them. If I live in the US and travel to Europe, and want to make a call with what I'm guessing is going to be a US Data Only Sim on a standard Android phone, I'm going to be charged extra, right? And if using their Blackphone, would it remove the need for US Data Sim? Just lost, the blog post didn't get too specific in those details. Can't beat all these telecom competitors listed if you're dependant on them in some way for your apps on native phones.

beedogs 12y ago

Better get the lawyers ready for the inevitable "national security" letters.

bites 12y ago

If call will go to telecommunication network i can guarantee that call can be intercepted. It is like normal call and those can be listened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_gateway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_gateway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception

carlob 12y ago

I really want these guys to succeed, but I have to say the comparison with skype is misleading to say the least: Skype @ $13.99 gives you unlimited calls to 63 countries for landlines and 8 countries for mobile Silent Circle @ $12.95 gives you 100 minutes in admittedly many more places. The crazy thing is that there is absolutely no need for them to market themselves as the cheap option, when they should be focusing more on privacy.

xorcist 12y ago

What is this marketing gibberish and why is Zimmermann (of PGP fame) connected to this? I first thought that it was cool they released a mass market product that encrypts PSTN communications. This is something that speciality phones do that carry a hefty pricetag and are two generations behind technologically. But on a second reading it says "encrypted TO the PSTN". What does that even mean? You could say that about every GSM phone if you wanted! Also "secure virtual operator". Are they a virtual operator or not? In which countries? Certainly not the 41 countries listed above, even if that's what they want you to believe. "No roaming charges". Yeah, that'd be great. But for what and where? No idea. After making my way though the text I want to dismiss this, but Zimmermann is in. So what's the deal here?

dan_bk 12y ago

Real solutions must be entirely de-centralized and open-source. Anything else is bandaid at best.

ZoFreX 12y ago

This does sound really cool, and I'm genuinely excited that there is a market for secure communications, but this solution isn't for me. I simply can't trust something in this field that is closed source. For anyone else who feels the same way but likes the sound of this, I'd recommend looking at TextSecure and RedPhone.