10 ms·

Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males in the U.S. are arrested by age 23, which can hurt their ability to find work, go to school and

by byoung2 12y ago

Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males in the U.S. are arrested by age 23, which can hurt their ability to find work, go to school and participate fully in their communities. An arrest by itself, without an accompanying conviction, cannot be used to deny employment. 1. http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/arrest_conviction.cfm#I http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/arrest_conviction.cfm#I

coryl 12y ago
Do arrest records show up in background checks by employers?
- timmclean 12y ago
  In Canada, at least, background checks can reveal attempted suicides and dropped charges, unfortunately: http://www.therecord.com/news-story/4538747-names-of-420-000-canadians-are-in-police-database-despite-no-criminal-records/ http://www.therecord.com/news-story/4538747-names-of-420-000...
  - astrodust 12y ago
    The dropped charges is the worst of this. How many people that were "kettled" during the G20 protests, despite not actually participating in the protests, nor ever being charged with anything, now have a police record?
  - ceph_ 12y ago
    Charges show up on background checks in the US as well. Even if there was no conviction.
- mbillie1 12y ago
  I believe only convictions / guilty pleas in the US.
  - stronglikedan 12y ago
    Nope. Everything. Forever. I have never been convicted of a crime, but I do have felony arrests on my record that have prevented me from getting an apartment, and hindered me from getting into a university.
- tdfx 12y ago
  If it goes to court, in most jurisdictions the disposition of the case will be available in a standard background check. For example, if you were charged with resisting arrest and found not guilty, it would still show up but also show "not guilty". Good luck explaining that to an employer, even if you did nothing wrong (and the courts confirmed it).
  - wmil 12y ago
    A "not guilty" verdict means that there was enough evidence to go to trial, but not enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. It's far from a confirmation that you did nothing wrong.
- bdcravens 12y ago
  I have a dismissed DWI that's still part of the public record.
- golden_apples 12y ago
  I've never had that experience, but I've been turned down on a couple of home rental applications when past arrests have turned up when running a background check. I'd assume the type of business that cared enough to run background checks would certainly catch any arrest on someone's record.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Given that they're often published in newspapers, you can often find that information in a few seconds on Google. I think it's dreadful that police forces do perp walks and publish mugshots of arresstees who may not even end up getting charged. All sorts of other things show up. I'm named in an eviction lawsuit from the 1990s, which might make someone think I was a deadbeat who didn't pay rent. As it happened the house I was renting a room in was sold and the new owner wanted everyone to leave so he could move in, but nuances like that aren't obvious from the summary records at the court.
_delirium 12y ago
Legally, no, but it's getting common for employers to Google-background-investigate potential hires, and arrest notices can come up in such searches, which employers may or may not put unofficial weight on. Though you might be better off in a big city. In smaller towns, this kind of administrative stuff ends up published: local papers, or even the sheriff's office directly, often put out an arrest blotter with the names/ages/circumstances of everyone arrested in the past day or week, and those end up indexed forever (I gather this kind of situation, where a non-public figure gets minor but potentially harmful facts about themselves prominently indexed Forever, was one of the things the EU's "right to be forgotten" business is worried about).
- opendais 12y ago
  Ya, stuff like that is why we need a right to be forgotten in the US. People tend to see an arrest and leap to conclusions. I say this as a person who has never been arrested. :/
  - dublinben 12y ago
    The 'right to be forgotten' is impossible to enforce. We just need to be more forgiving.
    - pavanky 12y ago
      The right to be forgotten lies in a gray zone. Who is going to be the judge of what needs to be forgotten and what can stay public ?
      - opendais 12y ago
        Anything that might make someone unemployable that didn't result in a conviction or other defeat in court.
        chc 12y ago
        I should have a right to make people forget that I have a bad attitude, never shower and am prone to cursing anyone in my vicinity?
petercooper 12y ago
While not as important as having a job, etc, it could possibly affect overseas travel. Someone couldn't travel with us from the UK to our wedding in the US as we learnt that anyone who's been arrested for any reason can't travel under the visa waiver program (they can apply for a visa though but that takes time, money, and an interview). And as far as I understand it, US VWP treaties operate on similar principles in both directions.
- GeorgeBeech 12y ago
  Eh? The law only talks about convictions not arrests. You need to qualify for a Business or Tourism visa to be able to use the VWP. (source: http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/ineligibilities.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/inelig...) Sounds like your friend got screwed by an over zealous bureaucrat.
  - adaml_623 12y ago
    Sounds like he read the question asked when you go here: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ and apply for the visa waiver. And he didn't feel like forking out for plane flights just to be turned back at the border. "B) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?"
  - DanBC 12y ago
    But see what the US embassy in London says: http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html > We recommend that anyone who have ever been arrested and/or convicted of an offense apply for a visa. In cases where the arrest resulted in a conviction, the individual may be permanently ineligible to receive a visa and in order to travel, a waiver of the permanent ineligibility is required. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to United States visa law. Therefore, even travelers with a spent conviction are required to declare the arrest and/or conviction and apply for a visa. Imagine you've just spent £X00 on a ticket. Would you gamble that (and the cost of flying back if denied entry), and your future chance of entry to the US, on getting through US border controls?
fredgrott 12y ago
not mention that laws to allow erasure of minor offenses differ per state in my state you can erase misdemeanor B and C class offenses after 5 years if 5 years no arrests
sanj 12y ago
"However, an employer may make an employment decision based on the conduct underlying an arrest if the conduct makes the individual unfit for the position in question." Which is more than enough wiggle room.
- byoung2 12y ago
  True. If you are truly innocent of the crime, you should have a good case to get the arrest record expunged (e.g. arrested for a case of mistaken identity and the charges are dropped). If there is enough evidence that you can't file a motion to dismiss, and the case goes to trial, then I suppose you have some explaining to do. The employer might be justified in denying employment if you engage in behavior that results in arrest (e.g. you are a known gang member arrested in a sweep, and later released or you were caught joyriding and the owner decides not to press charges). In this case, the arrest is not the reason for denying employment, your behavior is.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
EGreg 12y ago
Just to be clear, even if the charges are dropped, the arrest stays on your record. To get it expunged takes court motions: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/expungement-of-criminal-records-basics-32641.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/expungement-of-crimin...
- byoung2 12y ago
  I know a few people with felony arrests (charges dropped) who had the records expunged pretty easily. It was a simple form filed with the court, and the record was clean for later background checks. It's a hassle, sure, but it makes the rest of your life much easier.
  - jqm 12y ago
    In some places it may be easy as filling out a form. In other locations (Arizona for instance), there is no such thing as expungement. The best one can hope for is a little note next to the record saying judgement has been set aside.
eslaught 12y ago
On the other hand, if you have ever been arrested, even if not accused of anything, and you want to apply for citizenship or a green card in the US, then the burden is placed on you to get proof that you have never been accused of anything [1]. If you fail to provide such evidence (as can happen if you were arrested outside of the US and the police in that country aren't interested in cooperating), then the default presumption is one of guilt rather than innocence. Edit: And in case it wasn't clear, failure to obtain a green card in the US can make it more difficult to find employment, as not all companies are eager to navigate immigration procedures on the behalf of their employees. [1]: http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-485instr.pdf http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-485ins... (page 3)
anigbrowl 12y ago
That just means it won't be cited as a reason by an interviewer or in a HR letter. But your name and face ina mugshot gallery are definitely not going to improve your prospects.
squeaky-clean 12y ago
And when I delivered pizza, my manager wasn't allowed to make me work unpaid overtime. But this is America, and something being "not allowed" doesn't mean it isn't happening all the time. The people affected by this most generally cannot afford legal action to defend themselves against this. Or worse, they're unaware that it's illegal to do this.
- jwgur 12y ago
  You don't need to afford legal action to make a FLSA claim; the point about people being unaware of the legal mechanisms available to them (or even the illegality of it) is I think much stronger. If I was working hourly, I'd pray they make me work unpaid overtime, because when I was ready to hop jobs I'd walk into court with a fat 2x back wages (1x + liquidated damages) [1]. If they retaliate, it's up to 3x back wages. [1]: http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/backpay.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/backpay.htm
DanBC 12y ago
An arrest by itself, without an accompanying conviction, can be used to deny non-US citizens entry to the US. UK citizens who've been arrested need to apply for a visa and can't use the visa waiver / esta system. https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q683.htm https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q683.htm http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html
dragonwriter 12y ago
> An arrest by itself, without an accompanying conviction, cannot be used to deny employment. Your own linked source does not say that -- it says that an exclusion based on an arrest record alone is not considered "job related and consistent with business necessity", and so will not be an adequate defense against a discrimination claim if disparate impact on a protected axis (e.g., race) is established. It does not, however, indicate that deny employment on that ground is per se prohibited. Further, it does clearly state that the employer may use the fact of an arrest, even without conviction, as a trigger for exploration of the "conduct underlying the arrest", and may use that as a basis for denying employment or other adverse job actions even without an arrest -- providing, unhelpfully, nearly the most extreme possible example of an arrest without conviction as an illustration (an elementary school principal arrested but not convicted of sexually abusing minors where an internal investigation triggered by the arrest found some evidence supporting the accusations but still no conviction occurred), which certainly indicates why an arrest without a conviction may be sufficient to demonstrate that the decision is reasonably job related, but does little to illustrate where the boundary is.

by byoung2 12y ago

coryl 12y ago

Do arrest records show up in background checks by employers?

timmclean 12y ago
In Canada, at least, background checks can reveal attempted suicides and dropped charges, unfortunately: http://www.therecord.com/news-story/4538747-names-of-420-000-canadians-are-in-police-database-despite-no-criminal-records/ http://www.therecord.com/news-story/4538747-names-of-420-000...
- astrodust 12y ago
  The dropped charges is the worst of this. How many people that were "kettled" during the G20 protests, despite not actually participating in the protests, nor ever being charged with anything, now have a police record?
- ceph_ 12y ago
  Charges show up on background checks in the US as well. Even if there was no conviction.
mbillie1 12y ago
I believe only convictions / guilty pleas in the US.
- stronglikedan 12y ago
  Nope. Everything. Forever. I have never been convicted of a crime, but I do have felony arrests on my record that have prevented me from getting an apartment, and hindered me from getting into a university.
tdfx 12y ago
If it goes to court, in most jurisdictions the disposition of the case will be available in a standard background check. For example, if you were charged with resisting arrest and found not guilty, it would still show up but also show "not guilty". Good luck explaining that to an employer, even if you did nothing wrong (and the courts confirmed it).
- wmil 12y ago
  A "not guilty" verdict means that there was enough evidence to go to trial, but not enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. It's far from a confirmation that you did nothing wrong.
bdcravens 12y ago
I have a dismissed DWI that's still part of the public record.
golden_apples 12y ago
I've never had that experience, but I've been turned down on a couple of home rental applications when past arrests have turned up when running a background check. I'd assume the type of business that cared enough to run background checks would certainly catch any arrest on someone's record.
anigbrowl 12y ago
Given that they're often published in newspapers, you can often find that information in a few seconds on Google. I think it's dreadful that police forces do perp walks and publish mugshots of arresstees who may not even end up getting charged. All sorts of other things show up. I'm named in an eviction lawsuit from the 1990s, which might make someone think I was a deadbeat who didn't pay rent. As it happened the house I was renting a room in was sold and the new owner wanted everyone to leave so he could move in, but nuances like that aren't obvious from the summary records at the court.

_delirium 12y ago

Legally, no, but it's getting common for employers to Google-background-investigate potential hires, and arrest notices can come up in such searches, which employers may or may not put unofficial weight on. Though you might be better off in a big city. In smaller towns, this kind of administrative stuff ends up published: local papers, or even the sheriff's office directly, often put out an arrest blotter with the names/ages/circumstances of everyone arrested in the past day or week, and those end up indexed forever (I gather this kind of situation, where a non-public figure gets minor but potentially harmful facts about themselves prominently indexed Forever, was one of the things the EU's "right to be forgotten" business is worried about).

opendais 12y ago
Ya, stuff like that is why we need a right to be forgotten in the US. People tend to see an arrest and leap to conclusions. I say this as a person who has never been arrested. :/
- dublinben 12y ago
  The 'right to be forgotten' is impossible to enforce. We just need to be more forgiving.
  - pavanky 12y ago
    The right to be forgotten lies in a gray zone. Who is going to be the judge of what needs to be forgotten and what can stay public ?
    - opendais 12y ago
      Anything that might make someone unemployable that didn't result in a conviction or other defeat in court.
      - chc 12y ago
        I should have a right to make people forget that I have a bad attitude, never shower and am prone to cursing anyone in my vicinity?

petercooper 12y ago

While not as important as having a job, etc, it could possibly affect overseas travel. Someone couldn't travel with us from the UK to our wedding in the US as we learnt that anyone who's been arrested for any reason can't travel under the visa waiver program (they can apply for a visa though but that takes time, money, and an interview). And as far as I understand it, US VWP treaties operate on similar principles in both directions.

GeorgeBeech 12y ago
Eh? The law only talks about convictions not arrests. You need to qualify for a Business or Tourism visa to be able to use the VWP. (source: http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/ineligibilities.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/inelig...) Sounds like your friend got screwed by an over zealous bureaucrat.
- adaml_623 12y ago
  Sounds like he read the question asked when you go here: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ and apply for the visa waiver. And he didn't feel like forking out for plane flights just to be turned back at the border. "B) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?"
- DanBC 12y ago
  But see what the US embassy in London says: http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html > We recommend that anyone who have ever been arrested and/or convicted of an offense apply for a visa. In cases where the arrest resulted in a conviction, the individual may be permanently ineligible to receive a visa and in order to travel, a waiver of the permanent ineligibility is required. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to United States visa law. Therefore, even travelers with a spent conviction are required to declare the arrest and/or conviction and apply for a visa. Imagine you've just spent £X00 on a ticket. Would you gamble that (and the cost of flying back if denied entry), and your future chance of entry to the US, on getting through US border controls?

fredgrott 12y ago

not mention that laws to allow erasure of minor offenses differ per state in my state you can erase misdemeanor B and C class offenses after 5 years if 5 years no arrests

sanj 12y ago

"However, an employer may make an employment decision based on the conduct underlying an arrest if the conduct makes the individual unfit for the position in question." Which is more than enough wiggle room.

byoung2 12y ago
True. If you are truly innocent of the crime, you should have a good case to get the arrest record expunged (e.g. arrested for a case of mistaken identity and the charges are dropped). If there is enough evidence that you can't file a motion to dismiss, and the case goes to trial, then I suppose you have some explaining to do. The employer might be justified in denying employment if you engage in behavior that results in arrest (e.g. you are a known gang member arrested in a sweep, and later released or you were caught joyriding and the owner decides not to press charges). In this case, the arrest is not the reason for denying employment, your behavior is.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

EGreg 12y ago

Just to be clear, even if the charges are dropped, the arrest stays on your record. To get it expunged takes court motions: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/expungement-of-criminal-records-basics-32641.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/expungement-of-crimin...

byoung2 12y ago
I know a few people with felony arrests (charges dropped) who had the records expunged pretty easily. It was a simple form filed with the court, and the record was clean for later background checks. It's a hassle, sure, but it makes the rest of your life much easier.
- jqm 12y ago
  In some places it may be easy as filling out a form. In other locations (Arizona for instance), there is no such thing as expungement. The best one can hope for is a little note next to the record saying judgement has been set aside.

eslaught 12y ago

On the other hand, if you have ever been arrested, even if not accused of anything, and you want to apply for citizenship or a green card in the US, then the burden is placed on you to get proof that you have never been accused of anything [1]. If you fail to provide such evidence (as can happen if you were arrested outside of the US and the police in that country aren't interested in cooperating), then the default presumption is one of guilt rather than innocence. Edit: And in case it wasn't clear, failure to obtain a green card in the US can make it more difficult to find employment, as not all companies are eager to navigate immigration procedures on the behalf of their employees. [1]: http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-485instr.pdf http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-485ins... (page 3)

anigbrowl 12y ago

That just means it won't be cited as a reason by an interviewer or in a HR letter. But your name and face ina mugshot gallery are definitely not going to improve your prospects.

squeaky-clean 12y ago

And when I delivered pizza, my manager wasn't allowed to make me work unpaid overtime. But this is America, and something being "not allowed" doesn't mean it isn't happening all the time. The people affected by this most generally cannot afford legal action to defend themselves against this. Or worse, they're unaware that it's illegal to do this.

jwgur 12y ago
You don't need to afford legal action to make a FLSA claim; the point about people being unaware of the legal mechanisms available to them (or even the illegality of it) is I think much stronger. If I was working hourly, I'd pray they make me work unpaid overtime, because when I was ready to hop jobs I'd walk into court with a fat 2x back wages (1x + liquidated damages) [1]. If they retaliate, it's up to 3x back wages. [1]: http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/backpay.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/backpay.htm

DanBC 12y ago

An arrest by itself, without an accompanying conviction, can be used to deny non-US citizens entry to the US. UK citizens who've been arrested need to apply for a visa and can't use the visa waiver / esta system. https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q683.htm https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q683.htm http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html http://london.usembassy.gov/niv/add_crime.html

dragonwriter 12y ago

> An arrest by itself, without an accompanying conviction, cannot be used to deny employment. Your own linked source does not say that -- it says that an exclusion based on an arrest record alone is not considered "job related and consistent with business necessity", and so will not be an adequate defense against a discrimination claim if disparate impact on a protected axis (e.g., race) is established. It does not, however, indicate that deny employment on that ground is per se prohibited. Further, it does clearly state that the employer may use the fact of an arrest, even without conviction, as a trigger for exploration of the "conduct underlying the arrest", and may use that as a basis for denying employment or other adverse job actions even without an arrest -- providing, unhelpfully, nearly the most extreme possible example of an arrest without conviction as an illustration (an elementary school principal arrested but not convicted of sexually abusing minors where an internal investigation triggered by the arrest found some evidence supporting the accusations but still no conviction occurred), which certainly indicates why an arrest without a conviction may be sufficient to demonstrate that the decision is reasonably job related, but does little to illustrate where the boundary is.