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My point is that Netflix controls the requests, the whole time. So to say that "customers" are making these requests isn't actually true. Netflix is asking it

My point is that Netflix controls the requests, the whole time. So to say that "customers" are making these requests isn't actually true. Netflix is asking its own servers for the streaming video, which means they can control the volumes at which the data gets sent. Netflix could ask for less data, in the form of lower quality streams, but have intentionally decided to ask for, at all times, the highest possible video quality possible. In fact, they're so intent on sending as much data as possible, that they've begun rolling out 4k quality videos of more and more of their content. It's just important to recognize that it's not like Netflix has no control over these request volumes, because it's their software that's making the requests. They're in charge of the entire end-to-end.

dllthomas 12y ago
It's their software proxying customer requests. It's not like Netflix devices up and decide to watch a movie. It's true that Netflix software is involved at every point, but it's still fundamentally the customer demanding the data. Note that users can opt to stream lower quality than their link supports: Adjusting the data usage settings for your account is the easiest way to reduce the amount of bandwidth used while watching Netflix. There are 4 data usage settings to choose from, each estimate below is per stream: Low (0.3 GB per hour) Medium (SD: 0.7 GB per hour) High (HD: 3 GB per hour, 3D: 4.7 GB per hour, Ultra HD 4K: 7 GB per hour) Auto (adjusts automatically to deliver the highest possible quality, based on your current internet connection speed) From https://help.netflix.com/en/node/87 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/87
- diminoten 12y ago
  Now this is where I don't think consumers are as privy to the technology as they could be. I doubt most Netflix customers adjust their data usage settings with their ISPs in mind. Frankly, I'm not sure they should, but I doubt they're even thinking about that, either way. I'm not going to watch a 480p video because I'm trying to conserve my ISP's capacity. That's silly. Besides, I think Netflix has a vested interest in continuing to push this issue, and thus the "Auto" adjustment might favor as much data as possible, irrespective of the overall ISP's capacity.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    Why should they be adjusting their settings "with their ISPs in mind"? They're paying Verizon for "up to X mbps", Netflix is paying Level 3 for something enormous. When the amount the user is requesting exceeds X mbps, then certainly Verizon has zero responsibility to meet that. When it's an appreciable fraction, it's understandable that they don't always meet it - it's "best effort", after all. When it's a small fraction, "too much is being requested collectively by all the users over that link" seems like it should quite legitimately be Verizon's problem.
    - diminoten 12y ago
      If I had to have an actual opinion on this, I'd say they shouldn't, and the ISPs should just eat the cost of the upgrades, like they do for all their other network upgrades. But this just goes all the way back to the "up to" and "unlimited" bullshit verbiage ISPs have been using for years to sell their product. I just don't think this is as much about net neutrality as people are making it out to be. It's more or less, "Who should pay for this?" and the choices are, "Customers of ISPs" or "Customers of CDNs".

dllthomas 12y ago

It's their software proxying customer requests. It's not like Netflix devices up and decide to watch a movie. It's true that Netflix software is involved at every point, but it's still fundamentally the customer demanding the data. Note that users can opt to stream lower quality than their link supports: Adjusting the data usage settings for your account is the easiest way to reduce the amount of bandwidth used while watching Netflix. There are 4 data usage settings to choose from, each estimate below is per stream: Low (0.3 GB per hour) Medium (SD: 0.7 GB per hour) High (HD: 3 GB per hour, 3D: 4.7 GB per hour, Ultra HD 4K: 7 GB per hour) Auto (adjusts automatically to deliver the highest possible quality, based on your current internet connection speed) From https://help.netflix.com/en/node/87 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/87

diminoten 12y ago
Now this is where I don't think consumers are as privy to the technology as they could be. I doubt most Netflix customers adjust their data usage settings with their ISPs in mind. Frankly, I'm not sure they should, but I doubt they're even thinking about that, either way. I'm not going to watch a 480p video because I'm trying to conserve my ISP's capacity. That's silly. Besides, I think Netflix has a vested interest in continuing to push this issue, and thus the "Auto" adjustment might favor as much data as possible, irrespective of the overall ISP's capacity.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  Why should they be adjusting their settings "with their ISPs in mind"? They're paying Verizon for "up to X mbps", Netflix is paying Level 3 for something enormous. When the amount the user is requesting exceeds X mbps, then certainly Verizon has zero responsibility to meet that. When it's an appreciable fraction, it's understandable that they don't always meet it - it's "best effort", after all. When it's a small fraction, "too much is being requested collectively by all the users over that link" seems like it should quite legitimately be Verizon's problem.
  - diminoten 12y ago
    If I had to have an actual opinion on this, I'd say they shouldn't, and the ISPs should just eat the cost of the upgrades, like they do for all their other network upgrades. But this just goes all the way back to the "up to" and "unlimited" bullshit verbiage ISPs have been using for years to sell their product. I just don't think this is as much about net neutrality as people are making it out to be. It's more or less, "Who should pay for this?" and the choices are, "Customers of ISPs" or "Customers of CDNs".