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It's always kind of strange to me that Verizon only wants to provide settlement-free peering "where the relative traffic flows between an IP network provider an

It's always kind of strange to me that Verizon only wants to provide settlement-free peering "where the relative traffic flows between an IP network provider and us remain roughly equal". If you were to take that at face value, it means that Verizon would happy to provide free peering if only Netflix modified its client so it uploaded a number of random bytes equal to the size of the stream it was downloading. But that's nonsensical, right?

msandford 12y ago
No, that's fucking GENIUS. Please God, if there is a God, let someone from Netflix read this parent post and implement such a thing to take the wind right out of Verizon's sails.
- nathanyz 12y ago
  That is actually the basis of our startup is that we can solve the congestion problem by swarming with other video viewers to require less downstream bandwidth usage
  - click170 12y ago
    That's interesting tech, but I kind of feel like it's just postponing dealing with the problem. The problem is anticompetitive behaviour from ISPs, and while this would make video streaming better, it would just allow them to be more abusive, while we try to fill the resulting gap with more technology. IMO we should be leveraging the Netflix situation to fix that behaviour. Regardless, swarm-sourced streaming is something I've been fantasizing about for awhile and I'd love to see your source if it's open. You should definitely proceed with it regardless.
danielweber 12y ago
It's a holdover from the old days, when one side of a peering agreement very logically didn't want to carry all the packets of another provider while the other provider doesn't do much to help you in return.
- rbanffy 12y ago
  It would make sense in a completely p2p world - at the end, I receive and transmit roughly equal amounts of data - and I am billed accordingly on my end only for the traffic I send, despite generating some cost for the receiving end. This is not the case with ISPs - you get billed for everything. In the old phone world where this started, it'd be like you having to pay to receive calls as well as making them.
nathanyz 12y ago
Trust me, Verizon wants nothing of this sort. They would literally throw a fit if suddenly Netflix customers were pushing out as much bandwidth as they pull in.
BCM43 12y ago
But the connections consumers have are non-symmetrical. Almost none are able to upload at HD-quality speeds.
Torgo 12y ago
It doesn't need to be random. Make it torrent Ubuntu CDs or something. Then you can declare Netflix is helping achieve a public good in addition to calling Verizon's bluff.

msandford 12y ago

No, that's fucking GENIUS. Please God, if there is a God, let someone from Netflix read this parent post and implement such a thing to take the wind right out of Verizon's sails.

nathanyz 12y ago
That is actually the basis of our startup is that we can solve the congestion problem by swarming with other video viewers to require less downstream bandwidth usage
- click170 12y ago
  That's interesting tech, but I kind of feel like it's just postponing dealing with the problem. The problem is anticompetitive behaviour from ISPs, and while this would make video streaming better, it would just allow them to be more abusive, while we try to fill the resulting gap with more technology. IMO we should be leveraging the Netflix situation to fix that behaviour. Regardless, swarm-sourced streaming is something I've been fantasizing about for awhile and I'd love to see your source if it's open. You should definitely proceed with it regardless.

danielweber 12y ago

It's a holdover from the old days, when one side of a peering agreement very logically didn't want to carry all the packets of another provider while the other provider doesn't do much to help you in return.

rbanffy 12y ago
It would make sense in a completely p2p world - at the end, I receive and transmit roughly equal amounts of data - and I am billed accordingly on my end only for the traffic I send, despite generating some cost for the receiving end. This is not the case with ISPs - you get billed for everything. In the old phone world where this started, it'd be like you having to pay to receive calls as well as making them.

nathanyz 12y ago

Trust me, Verizon wants nothing of this sort. They would literally throw a fit if suddenly Netflix customers were pushing out as much bandwidth as they pull in.

BCM43 12y ago

But the connections consumers have are non-symmetrical. Almost none are able to upload at HD-quality speeds.

Torgo 12y ago

It doesn't need to be random. Make it torrent Ubuntu CDs or something. Then you can declare Netflix is helping achieve a public good in addition to calling Verizon's bluff.