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If Bitcoin is a security, is it debt? Is it equity? Is it a derivative of those? If Bitcoin is a negotiable interest, who is the counterparty? Bitcoin is neit

by natrius 12y ago

If Bitcoin is a security, is it debt? Is it equity? Is it a derivative of those? If Bitcoin is a negotiable interest, who is the counterparty? Bitcoin is neither of those things. It's currency, but not the currency of any country.

jrockway 12y ago
It doesn't matter. If I give you a piece of paper with a picture of a spider on it in exchange for something, as far as the court is concerned the piece of paper with the picture of the spider on it is money. (The underlying reason is that barter transactions are as taxable as cash transactions. Doesn't matter what you're bartering for what.)
- natrius 12y ago
  I agree that it's money. I agree that Silk Road facilitated money laundering. The plain text of the law in question doesn't cover Bitcoin, though. That doesn't mean the ruling was wrong.
  - jrockway 12y ago
    The other thing to keep in mind, especially for programmer types, is that the law is not a computer program. There is certainly argument around wording in law, no doubt, but the courts do try to consider the intent when making a ruling. ("Well, this is currency, but not the currency of Another Country, so... case dismissed." That might happen, but it also might not, because it's pretty clear that the author of the law wasn't imagining cryptocurrency when drafting it.)
  - enraged_camel 12y ago
    >>The plain text of the law in question doesn't cover Bitcoin, though. You mean the lawmakers did not predict the future and write the law to cover crypto-currencies? Mind-boggling. Totally.
    - icebraining 12y ago
      The EU had had a law (well, directive) covering electronic money for almost a decade when Bitcoin appeared.
gamblor956 12y ago
Bitcoin is a "negotiable instrument[]...in such form that title thereto passes upon delivery." A negotiable instrument can be but is not limited to debt instruments; the counterparty is simply whoever you transact with. Private municipal currency, for example, is not currency under the statute but is a monetary instrument because it is a negotiable instrument.
Terr_ 12y ago
It's a security. It's equity in a consensus mathematical construct.

by natrius 12y ago

jrockway 12y ago

It doesn't matter. If I give you a piece of paper with a picture of a spider on it in exchange for something, as far as the court is concerned the piece of paper with the picture of the spider on it is money. (The underlying reason is that barter transactions are as taxable as cash transactions. Doesn't matter what you're bartering for what.)

natrius 12y ago
I agree that it's money. I agree that Silk Road facilitated money laundering. The plain text of the law in question doesn't cover Bitcoin, though. That doesn't mean the ruling was wrong.
- jrockway 12y ago
  The other thing to keep in mind, especially for programmer types, is that the law is not a computer program. There is certainly argument around wording in law, no doubt, but the courts do try to consider the intent when making a ruling. ("Well, this is currency, but not the currency of Another Country, so... case dismissed." That might happen, but it also might not, because it's pretty clear that the author of the law wasn't imagining cryptocurrency when drafting it.)
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>The plain text of the law in question doesn't cover Bitcoin, though. You mean the lawmakers did not predict the future and write the law to cover crypto-currencies? Mind-boggling. Totally.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    The EU had had a law (well, directive) covering electronic money for almost a decade when Bitcoin appeared.

gamblor956 12y ago

Bitcoin is a "negotiable instrument[]...in such form that title thereto passes upon delivery." A negotiable instrument can be but is not limited to debt instruments; the counterparty is simply whoever you transact with. Private municipal currency, for example, is not currency under the statute but is a monetary instrument because it is a negotiable instrument.

Terr_ 12y ago

It's a security. It's equity in a consensus mathematical construct.