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"have a reluctance to admit that Apple is significantly a fashion company. Not the beacon of technical excellence they set it up to be in their mind." This is

"have a reluctance to admit that Apple is significantly a fashion company. Not the beacon of technical excellence they set it up to be in their mind." This is a false dichotomy, the idea that Apple is either a fashion company or a Tech leader. Why can't they be both? Yes they make products that are fashionably designed but, IMO, they are clearly also a leader if not the leader in consumer technical excellence.

InclinedPlane 12y ago
I think you're misreading what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Apple is just a fashion company. I'm saying that a lot of folks, especially the silicon valley alpha geek types, who are die hard Apple fans try to rationalize their preferences in a way that excludes the fashion aspect out of a sense of embarrassment or what-have-you.
- threeseed 12y ago
  A lot of people, including myself, like Apple products less so for the design and more for the actual technical qualities. They make the best laptops by far. The operating system marries UNIX with ease of use like nothing before. There is genuine attention to detail in their software that Microsoft or Ubuntu simply doesn't have. I am sick to death of idiots like you who dismiss my choice as being "fashionable".
  - tptacek 12y ago
    All you had to do was stop before writing that last sentence, and your comment could have been taken seriously. There's still time to edit it (if you do, my comment won't make any sense anymore, and I'll kill it).
    - threeseed 12y ago
      No I won't edit it. Painting someone's decision as "fashionable" is a form of condescension. It's hilarious that HN doesn't see this kind of behaviour as a personal attack and downvote accordingly.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        I found the comment condescending too, but found a way to reply to it that didn't involve spreading poison on the thread. You didn't. You're going to be happier on HN if you can internalize the idea that direct personal attacks are counterproductive. You did a disservice to your own argument.
      - pjc50 12y ago
        "fashionable" is a form of condescension This is a very social-group-specific point of view. In much of the world describing someone as fashionable is a compliment.
  - angryasian 12y ago
    as a mac user and ubuntu user.. the fact that mac still requires managers like macports/finch/homebrew make me question the "marries UNIX with ease" statement.
    - chipotle_coyote 12y ago
      If you're a terminal nerd you have to go through a couple extra steps with OS X that you don't with Ubuntu, sure. But if you're the sort of person who gives a flying fig about the kinds of programs homebrew installs for you, are you really going to scream, "WHAT? I have to spend five or six minutes installing Xcode's command line tools and the Homebrew package manager? THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!" and flip over the table in rage?
      - tptacek 12y ago
        If table-flipping over package management quirks isn't a fundamental part of the Unix heritage, I don't know what is.
  - InclinedPlane 12y ago
    It's perfectly possible to become a customer of a company based solely on objective appreciation of the qualities of its products, but that doesn't stop it from being a fashion company. A lot of people, like you apparently, want to pretend that Apple is not a fashion company to even the slightest degree when, of course, fashion has always been a big reason for the company's success.

InclinedPlane 12y ago

I think you're misreading what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Apple is just a fashion company. I'm saying that a lot of folks, especially the silicon valley alpha geek types, who are die hard Apple fans try to rationalize their preferences in a way that excludes the fashion aspect out of a sense of embarrassment or what-have-you.

threeseed 12y ago
A lot of people, including myself, like Apple products less so for the design and more for the actual technical qualities. They make the best laptops by far. The operating system marries UNIX with ease of use like nothing before. There is genuine attention to detail in their software that Microsoft or Ubuntu simply doesn't have. I am sick to death of idiots like you who dismiss my choice as being "fashionable".
- tptacek 12y ago
  All you had to do was stop before writing that last sentence, and your comment could have been taken seriously. There's still time to edit it (if you do, my comment won't make any sense anymore, and I'll kill it).
  - threeseed 12y ago
    No I won't edit it. Painting someone's decision as "fashionable" is a form of condescension. It's hilarious that HN doesn't see this kind of behaviour as a personal attack and downvote accordingly.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      I found the comment condescending too, but found a way to reply to it that didn't involve spreading poison on the thread. You didn't. You're going to be happier on HN if you can internalize the idea that direct personal attacks are counterproductive. You did a disservice to your own argument.
    - pjc50 12y ago
      "fashionable" is a form of condescension This is a very social-group-specific point of view. In much of the world describing someone as fashionable is a compliment.
- angryasian 12y ago
  as a mac user and ubuntu user.. the fact that mac still requires managers like macports/finch/homebrew make me question the "marries UNIX with ease" statement.
  - chipotle_coyote 12y ago
    If you're a terminal nerd you have to go through a couple extra steps with OS X that you don't with Ubuntu, sure. But if you're the sort of person who gives a flying fig about the kinds of programs homebrew installs for you, are you really going to scream, "WHAT? I have to spend five or six minutes installing Xcode's command line tools and the Homebrew package manager? THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!" and flip over the table in rage?
    - tptacek 12y ago
      If table-flipping over package management quirks isn't a fundamental part of the Unix heritage, I don't know what is.
- InclinedPlane 12y ago
  It's perfectly possible to become a customer of a company based solely on objective appreciation of the qualities of its products, but that doesn't stop it from being a fashion company. A lot of people, like you apparently, want to pretend that Apple is not a fashion company to even the slightest degree when, of course, fashion has always been a big reason for the company's success.