5 ms·

Been doing some iBeacon dev and deployments for about 8 months. The estimote hardware is just outrageously expensive compared to what you can source from China

Been doing some iBeacon dev and deployments for about 8 months. The estimote hardware is just outrageously expensive compared to what you can source from China with little effort. As in, 3-4x the cost. If you're just doing simple BTLE proximity I don't know why you'd need a $30 beacon (I guess they have some other sensors built into their beacon as well?)...if you're making a toy, fine, but if your intent is to deploy thousands (or even dozens, really) of beacons it just doesn't make any sense. I suspect in a year's time generic hardware will be had at < 1/10th the price of an estimote.

roberthahn 12y ago
One reason why people continue to use $30 beacons is marketing. The companies selling it for that much are clearly explaining what their tech is, and assures us that it works with iPhones. For a lot of us (myself included), this is new stuff. Unlike you, we wouldn't have a clue what part to search for, nor could we be sure that whatever we do get is guaranteed to work. I've looked around, and this article is the first I found that clearly connected iBeacon to BTLE. Even with that, I still have no idea what exactly I'd be looking for in a cheap iBeacon hotspot - would it be a BTLE chipset attached to an ARM? Do I need to install an OS? Should I look for something with an SD card? Those aren't stupid questions - they're the questions anyone would ask if they're not sure where to start. So those $30 beacons start looking like a pretty good value now. So you've been working on this for 8 months? Quit holding out on us and write something up! :) If the comments here are any indication, there's a need.
- localhost3000 12y ago
  That's a valid point re marketing, education, support... I'll write something once we're a bit further along.
jimiasty 12y ago
Hi, this is Jakub, co-founder & ceo of Estimote. Yes, you are right - there are additional sensors into each Estimote Beacon like temperature & accelerometer. You can read more about them here: http://blog.estimote.com/post/87918401035/firmware-update-activating-accelerometer-temperature http://blog.estimote.com/post/87918401035/firmware-update-ac... The challenge with cheap, Chinese beacons is that beacon deployments in general are site-specific at the moment. They require configuration, enabling security, calibration, etc. We sell currently Dev Kits that consist of 3 beacons as well as free iOS & Android SDK, responsive support, 20K+ developers community portal, cloud-based fleet management tool and more. Each beacon is in fact tiny computer with ARM processor, flash memory and sensors. Thanks to our iOS app you can configure range of the beacon, optimize battery life and security. We update our firmware on monthly-basis so even if you bought beacons 6 months ago you can download the latest version over-the-air and enable sensors and new tech and there is more to come soon. We all agree that beacons will be everywhere in the future and deployed at scale. The fact is that beacons cost will be still tiny part of the budget dedicated to build the context-aware app. We have partnered with many companies like Knoll to build such apps (http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/17/estimote-knoll-partner-to-bring-ibeacons-into-office-space-planning/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/17/estimote-knoll-partner-to-b...) and believe the value is in the underlying software delivered together with high quality hardware.
- roberthahn 12y ago
  I checked out your site - how come there's no tech specs page? This is good info to have, but it's still incomplete. I'm still wondering: how much flash memory? Can a mobile app send messages to the mote to write data, or are the motes read-only points of contact?
  - jimiasty 12y ago
    @Robert: there is 256K flash at the moment and there is two-way communication between phone and the beacon. At the moment it is possible to connect to the beacon as an admin and change its UUID, major, minor, broadcasted power/range, give a name, access temperature, motion-sensor. Technically it is also possible to store some information within the beacon, but just haven't enabled that for developers yet - how would you use it? In theory beacons is there to deliver a context, e.g. context of your fridge in the kitchen, so you phone in the background can respond and process/store data.
    - roberthahn 12y ago
      How I could use the storage, based on the store scenario you presented on your site: 1) Customer service: every time a mote gets a ping from a customer, log it. If the customer pinged the area 2-3x, send a message asking if they would like a sales rep to help them. 2) Analytics: building on 1), collect the logged hits from the devices and learn how customers move through the store, who moved through it (i.e.: any customers registered on a loyalty program?) 3) Admin user uses an app to configure coupons to store on the devices. 4) Track stock levels. If I could store stock levels on the beacons, then I could build an app that can be used to make queries ("Where can I find Levi's 501 Jeans with a 36 waist, 36 length?" "Oh, we have one pair left, look here…") Currently, the way you have to do these things now requires too many moving parts: a mobile app, the motes, and a web server for the mobile app to talk to. I believe the web server is unnecessary: if a user has data disabled, or if the store doesn't want to provide free wifi, then there's no way to facilitate these types of interactions.
      - 12y ago
chintanp 12y ago
Could you recommend other cheaper options which you have tried?
stenito 12y ago
Hi there! When we take a look at customers interests in total cost of ownership (TCO) of iBeacons in a production environment, we find that they the purchase price of the beacon is never an issue if you explain why they should not buy cheap iBeacons. Here's a post with clear figures explaining the difference in TCO between beacons. http://www.marconilabs.com/?p=1214 http://www.marconilabs.com/?p=1214

roberthahn 12y ago

One reason why people continue to use $30 beacons is marketing. The companies selling it for that much are clearly explaining what their tech is, and assures us that it works with iPhones. For a lot of us (myself included), this is new stuff. Unlike you, we wouldn't have a clue what part to search for, nor could we be sure that whatever we do get is guaranteed to work. I've looked around, and this article is the first I found that clearly connected iBeacon to BTLE. Even with that, I still have no idea what exactly I'd be looking for in a cheap iBeacon hotspot - would it be a BTLE chipset attached to an ARM? Do I need to install an OS? Should I look for something with an SD card? Those aren't stupid questions - they're the questions anyone would ask if they're not sure where to start. So those $30 beacons start looking like a pretty good value now. So you've been working on this for 8 months? Quit holding out on us and write something up! :) If the comments here are any indication, there's a need.

localhost3000 12y ago
That's a valid point re marketing, education, support... I'll write something once we're a bit further along.

jimiasty 12y ago

Hi, this is Jakub, co-founder & ceo of Estimote. Yes, you are right - there are additional sensors into each Estimote Beacon like temperature & accelerometer. You can read more about them here: http://blog.estimote.com/post/87918401035/firmware-update-activating-accelerometer-temperature http://blog.estimote.com/post/87918401035/firmware-update-ac... The challenge with cheap, Chinese beacons is that beacon deployments in general are site-specific at the moment. They require configuration, enabling security, calibration, etc. We sell currently Dev Kits that consist of 3 beacons as well as free iOS & Android SDK, responsive support, 20K+ developers community portal, cloud-based fleet management tool and more. Each beacon is in fact tiny computer with ARM processor, flash memory and sensors. Thanks to our iOS app you can configure range of the beacon, optimize battery life and security. We update our firmware on monthly-basis so even if you bought beacons 6 months ago you can download the latest version over-the-air and enable sensors and new tech and there is more to come soon. We all agree that beacons will be everywhere in the future and deployed at scale. The fact is that beacons cost will be still tiny part of the budget dedicated to build the context-aware app. We have partnered with many companies like Knoll to build such apps (http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/17/estimote-knoll-partner-to-bring-ibeacons-into-office-space-planning/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/17/estimote-knoll-partner-to-b...) and believe the value is in the underlying software delivered together with high quality hardware.

roberthahn 12y ago
I checked out your site - how come there's no tech specs page? This is good info to have, but it's still incomplete. I'm still wondering: how much flash memory? Can a mobile app send messages to the mote to write data, or are the motes read-only points of contact?
- jimiasty 12y ago
  @Robert: there is 256K flash at the moment and there is two-way communication between phone and the beacon. At the moment it is possible to connect to the beacon as an admin and change its UUID, major, minor, broadcasted power/range, give a name, access temperature, motion-sensor. Technically it is also possible to store some information within the beacon, but just haven't enabled that for developers yet - how would you use it? In theory beacons is there to deliver a context, e.g. context of your fridge in the kitchen, so you phone in the background can respond and process/store data.
  - roberthahn 12y ago
    How I could use the storage, based on the store scenario you presented on your site: 1) Customer service: every time a mote gets a ping from a customer, log it. If the customer pinged the area 2-3x, send a message asking if they would like a sales rep to help them. 2) Analytics: building on 1), collect the logged hits from the devices and learn how customers move through the store, who moved through it (i.e.: any customers registered on a loyalty program?) 3) Admin user uses an app to configure coupons to store on the devices. 4) Track stock levels. If I could store stock levels on the beacons, then I could build an app that can be used to make queries ("Where can I find Levi's 501 Jeans with a 36 waist, 36 length?" "Oh, we have one pair left, look here…") Currently, the way you have to do these things now requires too many moving parts: a mobile app, the motes, and a web server for the mobile app to talk to. I believe the web server is unnecessary: if a user has data disabled, or if the store doesn't want to provide free wifi, then there's no way to facilitate these types of interactions.
    - 12y ago

chintanp 12y ago

Could you recommend other cheaper options which you have tried?

stenito 12y ago

Hi there! When we take a look at customers interests in total cost of ownership (TCO) of iBeacons in a production environment, we find that they the purchase price of the beacon is never an issue if you explain why they should not buy cheap iBeacons. Here's a post with clear figures explaining the difference in TCO between beacons. http://www.marconilabs.com/?p=1214 http://www.marconilabs.com/?p=1214