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Even if their argument was _only_ that one tax issue, its still a legitimate U.S. tax. Allowing non-U.S. citizens to participate in transaction without taxatio

Even if their argument was _only_ that one tax issue, its still a legitimate U.S. tax. Allowing non-U.S. citizens to participate in transaction without taxation of U.S. property, yes, private property, amounts to forcing U.S. citizens to carry a larger part of the tax burden. However, this is just their stated issue. The real reasons are much larger than this one taxable interest. If Swiss citizens (or any other doing biz with this "neutral" country) don't want to pay U.S. taxes, they can buy and sell property in Switzerland or some other country that doesn't mind its citizens carrying the tax burden for non-citizens.

joubert 17y ago
How about temporary workers (e.g. 2 year work stint in a bank, etc.) in the US having to pay social security and medicare taxes during that time; a tax for a future benefit that they will never see. I always thought that was super unfair.
- jhancock 17y ago
  That one does seem unfair. To get to the bottom of your issue, you have to figure out how to deal with the case of what if you later choose to become a permanent resident/citizen? Would we need to collect a large sum of back taxes on you? Are you certain you get no benefits as a temporary worker? I am looking into getting my wife non-permanent-residency in the U.S. One part of this is me proving, through prior tax filings, that I live well above the poverty level for a family of 3. The reason for this is once she is here, she can file for welfare and such. So apparently, a new resident, even non-permanent does have some social benefits: welfare, emergency health care, etc. The tax structure is complex, uneven, and government spending is not well controlled. I feel that if we fix issues like we are trying to do with offshore banking, we can get to the next part, which is determining more fair taxation. So long as there are ways out for some, there is not enough force to fix tax fairness issues.
- bluedanieru 17y ago
  Many countries have agreements where if you pay into a national pension in one, it will count as having contributed to the other should you ever return. For example in Japan where I pay into the national pension plan, most of that could be counted for Social Security if I moved back to the States (or, I could opt for a single payment immediately).
- blasdel 17y ago
  Social Security and Medicare are not pensions -- they are welfare programs. The IRS is not even allowed to tell other agencies how much you've paid.
eugenejen 17y ago
I don't know. Tax authority will try to get maximum benefit in both ways. For H-1 B holders and Green Card holders. When they leave U.S., they lost their right to claim Social Security benefit and Medicaid they paid to U.S. in future. Is that fair? I know it depends on which side you are standing.
- jhancock 17y ago
  Its a tough call as to whether to treat H1-B and Green Card residents in this way. My personal feeling is that people that come here under such programs should be looking to make the U.S. their home and therefore start paying into the system. It clearly is a problem that we make it so difficult for them to complete the process. So should we: A - not collect those social taxes until you complete the process and then ask for years of back taxes once you become a citizen? B - not collect at all and treat them as temporary workers that we can throw out at will with no intention if letting them become citizens? C - collect the taxes and let them have it back if you leave and don't finish the process of becoming a citizen? There are other choices, but that should show their are problems with any way we choose.
  - eugenejen 17y ago
    Maybe B. is the current choice. Meanwhile if those H-1Bs had joined 401k plans and had U.S. securities/properties. When they go home to India or China and found a successful business. U.S. IRS can wait for 30 years when they died and request frozen assets for unpaid estate tax for their U.S. and India/China assets. I guess when that happens, china/india will go to war against U.S. for sovereign power over taxation.
    - jhancock 17y ago
      I think by that time, China and India will be well embroiled in trying to overtax as well. Do not assume the U.S. position is unique in that somehow the water here makes our brains fuzzy. It is simply a case of position relative to others.

joubert 17y ago

How about temporary workers (e.g. 2 year work stint in a bank, etc.) in the US having to pay social security and medicare taxes during that time; a tax for a future benefit that they will never see. I always thought that was super unfair.

jhancock 17y ago
That one does seem unfair. To get to the bottom of your issue, you have to figure out how to deal with the case of what if you later choose to become a permanent resident/citizen? Would we need to collect a large sum of back taxes on you? Are you certain you get no benefits as a temporary worker? I am looking into getting my wife non-permanent-residency in the U.S. One part of this is me proving, through prior tax filings, that I live well above the poverty level for a family of 3. The reason for this is once she is here, she can file for welfare and such. So apparently, a new resident, even non-permanent does have some social benefits: welfare, emergency health care, etc. The tax structure is complex, uneven, and government spending is not well controlled. I feel that if we fix issues like we are trying to do with offshore banking, we can get to the next part, which is determining more fair taxation. So long as there are ways out for some, there is not enough force to fix tax fairness issues.
bluedanieru 17y ago
Many countries have agreements where if you pay into a national pension in one, it will count as having contributed to the other should you ever return. For example in Japan where I pay into the national pension plan, most of that could be counted for Social Security if I moved back to the States (or, I could opt for a single payment immediately).
blasdel 17y ago
Social Security and Medicare are not pensions -- they are welfare programs. The IRS is not even allowed to tell other agencies how much you've paid.

eugenejen 17y ago

I don't know. Tax authority will try to get maximum benefit in both ways. For H-1 B holders and Green Card holders. When they leave U.S., they lost their right to claim Social Security benefit and Medicaid they paid to U.S. in future. Is that fair? I know it depends on which side you are standing.

jhancock 17y ago
Its a tough call as to whether to treat H1-B and Green Card residents in this way. My personal feeling is that people that come here under such programs should be looking to make the U.S. their home and therefore start paying into the system. It clearly is a problem that we make it so difficult for them to complete the process. So should we: A - not collect those social taxes until you complete the process and then ask for years of back taxes once you become a citizen? B - not collect at all and treat them as temporary workers that we can throw out at will with no intention if letting them become citizens? C - collect the taxes and let them have it back if you leave and don't finish the process of becoming a citizen? There are other choices, but that should show their are problems with any way we choose.
- eugenejen 17y ago
  Maybe B. is the current choice. Meanwhile if those H-1Bs had joined 401k plans and had U.S. securities/properties. When they go home to India or China and found a successful business. U.S. IRS can wait for 30 years when they died and request frozen assets for unpaid estate tax for their U.S. and India/China assets. I guess when that happens, china/india will go to war against U.S. for sovereign power over taxation.
  - jhancock 17y ago
    I think by that time, China and India will be well embroiled in trying to overtax as well. Do not assume the U.S. position is unique in that somehow the water here makes our brains fuzzy. It is simply a case of position relative to others.