3 ms·

I'm actually pretty disturbed by the comments here. Of all of the comments, I don't see a single one that basically goes after the fact that some one has a reve

I'm actually pretty disturbed by the comments here. Of all of the comments, I don't see a single one that basically goes after the fact that some one has a revenge porn site, that identifies users, and that is using TOR to enable it. I agree that most of this lawsuit w.r.t TOR is bogus - just like trying to sue the Internet for all of the stupid shit that goes on there. The one time I ventured into TOR (many many years ago), I got scared off immediately when I just saw the description of hidden services. Pure anonymity is almost as evil as no anonymity. Reading into the comment, it looks like the plaintiff was underage, had these posted against her consent, and then publicly distributed with her name attached. Unless TOR finds a way to balance enablement with responsibility, it will eventually slide into nothing more then the criminal underbelly of the Internet, and all that is vile about modern civilization.

knd775 12y ago
To be fair, that's pretty much where it is now anyway. There are a lot of great and legitimate uses for it (I use it occasionally for a few things), but already that's where the so-called Dark Net or Deep Web mostly lives. Also, you're naive if you think that the TOR Project should essentially curate or monitor sites. That's akin to saying that ICANN or someone else should make sure nothing illegal ever happens on the Internet.
owenmarshall 12y ago
>Unless TOR finds a way to balance enablement with responsibility, it will eventually slide into nothing more then the criminal underbelly of the Internet, and all that is vile about modern civilization. This is a really good point. The one thing to remember, though, is that criminals already have access to better tools for privacy than Tor. Million-node botnets, hacked servers, stolen identities... I'm not sure what Tor can do to improve the current situation.
icebraining 12y ago
I'm actually pretty disturbed by the comments here. Of all of the comments, I don't see a single one that basically goes after the fact that some one has a revenge porn site, that identifies users, and that is using TOR to enable it. Because there's nothing fruitful to discuss. Yes, it's a terrible thing and the people behind it should be prosecuted and convicted. Most of us take that for granted, there's no point in saying it. Pure anonymity is almost as evil as no anonymity. The thing is, when you're talking about important enough acts, like dissidence from authoritarian regimes, there's no such thing as "non-pure anonymity". You're either anonymous or imprisoned (or worse). So there's really no much we can do if we want to keep Tor as a useful tool for whistleblowers. After all, the same software that powers pinkmeth.com also powers SecureDrop; the technology can't tell your intentions.
- sseveran 12y ago
  This will probably eventually by TORs undoing. Eventually there will be a major media event and there will be people beating the drums for action. By definition many of the people with legitimate uses of TOR will not be able to say anything since doing so publicly would defeat the purpose. And the TOR network may still exist after congress eventually passes legislation or a federal agency suddenly discovers its right to regulate TOR deep in its charter. But the organization would be gone and distributing/using TOR in the US could be a crime. The most useful thing in keeping TOR alive would be for the community to continue to show how important something like SecureDrop is in the face of global electronic surveillance. That way any attack on TOR is an attack on free speech. All the comments on how the lawyer is so stupid and doesn't understand technology misses that the people that may ultimately decide the fate of TOR also probably don't understand technology.
AlyssaRowan 12y ago
It's only natural that the comments here focus on the insane, newsworthy aspect of this lawsuit - that being Tor being listed as a defendant. The other part is relatively sane, and therefore not particularly germane to relevant discussion here. In general, no-one who creates anything has any real control over what other people use it for. Tor has no control over what the network is used for (it is kind of the point that no-one does!). Sure, you can ask: "please use this software for good, or for awesome". But that's about it, and well, bad guys aren't known for listening to you, or to anyone - which the plaintiff would know very well, because control (or lack thereof) cuts to the very heart of this case. When I sign model releases - though they are not strictly necessary where I am, they help to make sure all participants know the full consequences of what they're doing, and knowledgeably consent to it - I know media cannot effectively be universally de-published. I know that choice is basically irrevocable, and (for example) may well limit some future career prospects because some people vehemently Do Not Like That Sort Of Thing™. It's my free choice to model or not, being aware of all that. That choice was reportedly denied to the plaintiff - and that's absolutely reprehensible, so I wish her the best of luck in going after that 'revenge porn' site if it does what they allege it does. But my heavens I don't think she could have chosen a worse lawyer to represent her if she tried. Tor's just got nothing material to do with it whatsoever. He may as well have sued Tim Berners-Lee for inventing the web. (Please don't tell them that. They might actually think that's a good idea!)

knd775 12y ago

To be fair, that's pretty much where it is now anyway. There are a lot of great and legitimate uses for it (I use it occasionally for a few things), but already that's where the so-called Dark Net or Deep Web mostly lives. Also, you're naive if you think that the TOR Project should essentially curate or monitor sites. That's akin to saying that ICANN or someone else should make sure nothing illegal ever happens on the Internet.

owenmarshall 12y ago

>Unless TOR finds a way to balance enablement with responsibility, it will eventually slide into nothing more then the criminal underbelly of the Internet, and all that is vile about modern civilization. This is a really good point. The one thing to remember, though, is that criminals already have access to better tools for privacy than Tor. Million-node botnets, hacked servers, stolen identities... I'm not sure what Tor can do to improve the current situation.

icebraining 12y ago

I'm actually pretty disturbed by the comments here. Of all of the comments, I don't see a single one that basically goes after the fact that some one has a revenge porn site, that identifies users, and that is using TOR to enable it. Because there's nothing fruitful to discuss. Yes, it's a terrible thing and the people behind it should be prosecuted and convicted. Most of us take that for granted, there's no point in saying it. Pure anonymity is almost as evil as no anonymity. The thing is, when you're talking about important enough acts, like dissidence from authoritarian regimes, there's no such thing as "non-pure anonymity". You're either anonymous or imprisoned (or worse). So there's really no much we can do if we want to keep Tor as a useful tool for whistleblowers. After all, the same software that powers pinkmeth.com also powers SecureDrop; the technology can't tell your intentions.

sseveran 12y ago
This will probably eventually by TORs undoing. Eventually there will be a major media event and there will be people beating the drums for action. By definition many of the people with legitimate uses of TOR will not be able to say anything since doing so publicly would defeat the purpose. And the TOR network may still exist after congress eventually passes legislation or a federal agency suddenly discovers its right to regulate TOR deep in its charter. But the organization would be gone and distributing/using TOR in the US could be a crime. The most useful thing in keeping TOR alive would be for the community to continue to show how important something like SecureDrop is in the face of global electronic surveillance. That way any attack on TOR is an attack on free speech. All the comments on how the lawyer is so stupid and doesn't understand technology misses that the people that may ultimately decide the fate of TOR also probably don't understand technology.

AlyssaRowan 12y ago

It's only natural that the comments here focus on the insane, newsworthy aspect of this lawsuit - that being Tor being listed as a defendant. The other part is relatively sane, and therefore not particularly germane to relevant discussion here. In general, no-one who creates anything has any real control over what other people use it for. Tor has no control over what the network is used for (it is kind of the point that no-one does!). Sure, you can ask: "please use this software for good, or for awesome". But that's about it, and well, bad guys aren't known for listening to you, or to anyone - which the plaintiff would know very well, because control (or lack thereof) cuts to the very heart of this case. When I sign model releases - though they are not strictly necessary where I am, they help to make sure all participants know the full consequences of what they're doing, and knowledgeably consent to it - I know media cannot effectively be universally de-published. I know that choice is basically irrevocable, and (for example) may well limit some future career prospects because some people vehemently Do Not Like That Sort Of Thing™. It's my free choice to model or not, being aware of all that. That choice was reportedly denied to the plaintiff - and that's absolutely reprehensible, so I wish her the best of luck in going after that 'revenge porn' site if it does what they allege it does. But my heavens I don't think she could have chosen a worse lawyer to represent her if she tried. Tor's just got nothing material to do with it whatsoever. He may as well have sued Tim Berners-Lee for inventing the web. (Please don't tell them that. They might actually think that's a good idea!)