4 ms·

It's funny how your first thought is not to go to your neighbor, ask around and see whether this is going to be any trouble for you at all and if it is, try to

by snitko 12y ago

It's funny how your first thought is not to go to your neighbor, ask around and see whether this is going to be any trouble for you at all and if it is, try to work out a solution you both would agree on. Your first thought: permit, government, regulation. He's your neighbor for gods sake. It's not like you can't go talk to him. Why do you, by default, treat him like a piece of scum with which only government can deal? Needing some kind of permit to do whatever I please with my property, if it doesn't create problems to anybody else, is insane.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
mahouse 12y ago
It's not about screwing your neighbour, it's about security, it's about having ensurance, it's about collecting taxes, it's about not being unfair to the rest of hotels that just follow the law. If you don't like the law that gives you no permission to walk around it.
- RBerenguel 12y ago
  I wonder why you are being downvoted by stating obvious facts related to the problem. As time passes I'm more tempted to install that Chrome plugin that turns every mention of "disrupt" into "bullshit."
- snitko 12y ago
  Why do you think your security should matter more to your neighbor than his ability to make money by renting out his property? He's got family to feed too. Why do you think collecting taxes is what everyone considers a just thing to do? Why do you think fairness is when hotels can charge visitors twice as much and provide twice as shittier service? Why do you think laws cannot be broken, if unjust? Many people smoke weed which is illegal in many countries. Do you consider those people to be criminals? Would you look them in the eye and tell them to go vote harder next time and then send them to jail?
  - mahouse 12y ago
    > Why do you think your security should matter more to your neighbor than his ability to make money by renting out his property? He's got family to feed too. Not my own security, but the security of the person who pays for the room. > Why do you think collecting taxes is what everyone considers a just thing to do? I don't care about what people thinks is just or not. Taxes must be paid, because otherwise there would be no public services, such as healthcare or education. We rely on them. > Why do you think fairness is when hotels can charge visitors twice as much and provide twice as shittier service? You are free to open a hotel which follows the law but has lower prices. > Why do you think laws cannot be broken, if unjust? Many people smoke weed which is illegal in many countries. Do you consider those people to be criminals? Would you look them in the eye and tell them to go vote harder next time and then send them to jail? A very weird comparison you're pulling here. I won't even bother to respond to this...
    - snitko 12y ago
      > Not my own security, but the security of the person who pays for the room. Can a person decide for himself whether to stay with a government licenced business like a hotel or with someone who wants to rent him a room without any special permits from the government? Why are you deciding for that other person what is safe or not? >I don't care about what people thinks is just or not. Taxes must be paid, because otherwise there would be no public services, such as healthcare or education. We rely on them. And roads. You forgot, no one but government bureaucrats can build roads. So, you don't care for what other people think is just, but you're absolutely okay with forcing your perceived conception of justice upon them by saying "it's unfair to hotels"? What makes you think your sense of fairness is better? >You are free to open a hotel which follows the law but has lower prices This is impossible because the permits I'd have to obtain and rules I'd have to comply with would raise prices. >A very weird comparison you're pulling here. I won't even bother to respond to this... Not weird at all. You said you can't go breaking a law if you simply disagree with it. I gave you an example of a law that many people break and asked you whether you would send them to jail for breaking it. If you stand by your principle, you'd have to do it.
DanBC 12y ago
I have 9 neigbours (4 next door, 5 below me in the building) and some of them are utter arseholes. I know they're arseholes and I know that if they started renting out their property it would be a pointless exercise for me to attempt to discuss it with them. And while I could wait for it to go wrong - which it assuredly would (some of them are fucking idiots) - I would just report it early.
- zo1 12y ago
  That's just shifting the burden to society. Instead of you taking ownership of your own housing choices, and the consequences thereof. Everything you mention would be avoided if you took the effort to find a place to stay that you find agreeable to your personal preferences.
  - dalke 12y ago
    It appears that DanBC has found an agreeable place, with the expectation that certain laws and prohibitions, both cultural and legal, are in place. Should the neighbors decide to start a jackhammer testing facility, and ignore DanBC's requests to stop making such a racket between 11pm and 6 am, I don't think the obligation should be on DanBC to move. I see you structured this as an ownership issue. The issue is that certain things leak outside of what one owns. This includes sound, light, odor, and access to shared space. How are these resolved? Combat, private courts (as, for example, in medieval Iceland), public courts (civil in this case), and various other dispute resolution systems exist. Nearly all of them, including duels, depend on a system of laws. Take the Icelandic Commonwealth as an example of a society with no government, and where everything was privately owned. Even then, there was a set of laws, and the role of the lögsögumaðr was to act as counselor and to recite the laws at the Alþingi so that everyone would know what they are. If there was a serious problem that couldn't be resolved locally, it was handled by the Alþingi, as many of the sagas describe. Also, as DanBC is part of society, your first phrase is odd - it's shifting the burden within society not to society, and shifting it to a dispute resolution system which has been developed to handle precisely these issues. Similarly, I've shifted my water acquisition burden nearly completely to society.
eps 12y ago
So naive, so detached from the reality, so adorable. The chances of someone stopping renting their place out because a neighbor asks for it are ZERO. Unless you show up with a led pipe and a couple of friends. edit Downvote all you want, but if you unglue yourselves from the monitors and indeed try and talk to a neighbor who has already resolved to rent his place out, you will quickly realize that such decisions are not made lightly and by the time you show up to change your mind, it's already too late.

by snitko 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

mahouse 12y ago

It's not about screwing your neighbour, it's about security, it's about having ensurance, it's about collecting taxes, it's about not being unfair to the rest of hotels that just follow the law. If you don't like the law that gives you no permission to walk around it.

RBerenguel 12y ago
I wonder why you are being downvoted by stating obvious facts related to the problem. As time passes I'm more tempted to install that Chrome plugin that turns every mention of "disrupt" into "bullshit."
snitko 12y ago
Why do you think your security should matter more to your neighbor than his ability to make money by renting out his property? He's got family to feed too. Why do you think collecting taxes is what everyone considers a just thing to do? Why do you think fairness is when hotels can charge visitors twice as much and provide twice as shittier service? Why do you think laws cannot be broken, if unjust? Many people smoke weed which is illegal in many countries. Do you consider those people to be criminals? Would you look them in the eye and tell them to go vote harder next time and then send them to jail?
- mahouse 12y ago
  > Why do you think your security should matter more to your neighbor than his ability to make money by renting out his property? He's got family to feed too. Not my own security, but the security of the person who pays for the room. > Why do you think collecting taxes is what everyone considers a just thing to do? I don't care about what people thinks is just or not. Taxes must be paid, because otherwise there would be no public services, such as healthcare or education. We rely on them. > Why do you think fairness is when hotels can charge visitors twice as much and provide twice as shittier service? You are free to open a hotel which follows the law but has lower prices. > Why do you think laws cannot be broken, if unjust? Many people smoke weed which is illegal in many countries. Do you consider those people to be criminals? Would you look them in the eye and tell them to go vote harder next time and then send them to jail? A very weird comparison you're pulling here. I won't even bother to respond to this...
  - snitko 12y ago
    > Not my own security, but the security of the person who pays for the room. Can a person decide for himself whether to stay with a government licenced business like a hotel or with someone who wants to rent him a room without any special permits from the government? Why are you deciding for that other person what is safe or not? >I don't care about what people thinks is just or not. Taxes must be paid, because otherwise there would be no public services, such as healthcare or education. We rely on them. And roads. You forgot, no one but government bureaucrats can build roads. So, you don't care for what other people think is just, but you're absolutely okay with forcing your perceived conception of justice upon them by saying "it's unfair to hotels"? What makes you think your sense of fairness is better? >You are free to open a hotel which follows the law but has lower prices This is impossible because the permits I'd have to obtain and rules I'd have to comply with would raise prices. >A very weird comparison you're pulling here. I won't even bother to respond to this... Not weird at all. You said you can't go breaking a law if you simply disagree with it. I gave you an example of a law that many people break and asked you whether you would send them to jail for breaking it. If you stand by your principle, you'd have to do it.

DanBC 12y ago

I have 9 neigbours (4 next door, 5 below me in the building) and some of them are utter arseholes. I know they're arseholes and I know that if they started renting out their property it would be a pointless exercise for me to attempt to discuss it with them. And while I could wait for it to go wrong - which it assuredly would (some of them are fucking idiots) - I would just report it early.

zo1 12y ago
That's just shifting the burden to society. Instead of you taking ownership of your own housing choices, and the consequences thereof. Everything you mention would be avoided if you took the effort to find a place to stay that you find agreeable to your personal preferences.
- dalke 12y ago
  It appears that DanBC has found an agreeable place, with the expectation that certain laws and prohibitions, both cultural and legal, are in place. Should the neighbors decide to start a jackhammer testing facility, and ignore DanBC's requests to stop making such a racket between 11pm and 6 am, I don't think the obligation should be on DanBC to move. I see you structured this as an ownership issue. The issue is that certain things leak outside of what one owns. This includes sound, light, odor, and access to shared space. How are these resolved? Combat, private courts (as, for example, in medieval Iceland), public courts (civil in this case), and various other dispute resolution systems exist. Nearly all of them, including duels, depend on a system of laws. Take the Icelandic Commonwealth as an example of a society with no government, and where everything was privately owned. Even then, there was a set of laws, and the role of the lögsögumaðr was to act as counselor and to recite the laws at the Alþingi so that everyone would know what they are. If there was a serious problem that couldn't be resolved locally, it was handled by the Alþingi, as many of the sagas describe. Also, as DanBC is part of society, your first phrase is odd - it's shifting the burden within society not to society, and shifting it to a dispute resolution system which has been developed to handle precisely these issues. Similarly, I've shifted my water acquisition burden nearly completely to society.

eps 12y ago

So naive, so detached from the reality, so adorable. The chances of someone stopping renting their place out because a neighbor asks for it are ZERO. Unless you show up with a led pipe and a couple of friends. edit Downvote all you want, but if you unglue yourselves from the monitors and indeed try and talk to a neighbor who has already resolved to rent his place out, you will quickly realize that such decisions are not made lightly and by the time you show up to change your mind, it's already too late.