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"What I'm interested in is whether Americans: 1. Care. 2. Care enough to change it. 3. Actually can change it. My personal belief is that all three are no."

"What I'm interested in is whether Americans: 1. Care. 2. Care enough to change it. 3. Actually can change it. My personal belief is that all three are no." I'm not Muslim but those questions scare me. What if we fail? For what it's worth, many civil rights movements faced the same obstacles and persevered. Consider how black leaders felt, how LGBT leaders felt: They were advocating for minorities whom it was politically and socially acceptable to openly despise. Here's Martin Luther King writing from jail: "First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection." Somehow it turned around; I don't know how it happens. Look at the tidal wave for gay rights recently.

acqq 12y ago
It would be of the huge benefit of all societies that the religions also disavow the inhumane ideas and practices appearing in their holy texts. See the examples with the exact references in my other comment here. The problems exist and are real even if it's hard to talk about them.
hadoukenio 12y ago
Further to this. I'm interested if this is a "limited hangout"... What if Snowden really is a limited hangout and the Arab Spring was just the rehearsal. What if the powers that be wanted to see how far they could poke the stick at the American people to see (like in a controlled burn) how they would respond. Even after ripping up The Constitution, spying domestically, and approving drone strikes to kill US citizens abroad, the general populace are asleep. No mass protests. No impeachment. What if this all was a charade to prove that complete control is within grasp without consequence.
- deciplex 12y ago
  What if the powers that be are mostly not coordinated and basically grabbing whatever they can, while they can? Meanwhile, bureaucracies like every three-letter agency ever, mostly exist because they provide hierarchies for people to climb? What if the conditions for success in those organizations are what they are, because of decades of decisions which are long-term really terrible, but short-term tolerable and even advantageous (to a few people, that is)? The state America finds itself in might me due to malevolent actors, but it might also be that: * American culture doesn't value liberty, and there is no path to get there. * American government is paralyzed, and while everyone knows it, no one has the power to do anything about it. This does eventually lead to tyranny, but there doesn't have to be some secretive cabal leading everyone in that direction. It could just be that the society is just sort of wandering there due to a handful of unfortunate factors. From where I sit, I can't really tell the difference. Nor do I think it really matters. But, generally I'm of the opinion that tyrants are creatures of opportunity, and lack the patience required to gradually shape a nation into a police state over a span of decades.

acqq 12y ago

It would be of the huge benefit of all societies that the religions also disavow the inhumane ideas and practices appearing in their holy texts. See the examples with the exact references in my other comment here. The problems exist and are real even if it's hard to talk about them.

hadoukenio 12y ago

Further to this. I'm interested if this is a "limited hangout"... What if Snowden really is a limited hangout and the Arab Spring was just the rehearsal. What if the powers that be wanted to see how far they could poke the stick at the American people to see (like in a controlled burn) how they would respond. Even after ripping up The Constitution, spying domestically, and approving drone strikes to kill US citizens abroad, the general populace are asleep. No mass protests. No impeachment. What if this all was a charade to prove that complete control is within grasp without consequence.

deciplex 12y ago
What if the powers that be are mostly not coordinated and basically grabbing whatever they can, while they can? Meanwhile, bureaucracies like every three-letter agency ever, mostly exist because they provide hierarchies for people to climb? What if the conditions for success in those organizations are what they are, because of decades of decisions which are long-term really terrible, but short-term tolerable and even advantageous (to a few people, that is)? The state America finds itself in might me due to malevolent actors, but it might also be that: * American culture doesn't value liberty, and there is no path to get there. * American government is paralyzed, and while everyone knows it, no one has the power to do anything about it. This does eventually lead to tyranny, but there doesn't have to be some secretive cabal leading everyone in that direction. It could just be that the society is just sort of wandering there due to a handful of unfortunate factors. From where I sit, I can't really tell the difference. Nor do I think it really matters. But, generally I'm of the opinion that tyrants are creatures of opportunity, and lack the patience required to gradually shape a nation into a police state over a span of decades.