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In his book "Free Will" (http://www.samharris.org/free-will http://www.samharris.org/free-will), Sam Harris discusses the dilemma of what we would do if we sudd

In his book "Free Will" (http://www.samharris.org/free-will http://www.samharris.org/free-will), Sam Harris discusses the dilemma of what we would do if we suddenly discovered that horrible acts of violence were actually pre-determined by one's genetics and physical traits, rather than by one's (supposedly) controllable will and thought processes. How do you punish someone who unwillingly commits atrocities, someone who cannot control it and didn't ask to be born that way? What do you do with that individual? IIRC the example was someone committing a murder and then the jury discovering that the person actually had a brain tumor that was making him/her act differently from normal. Do you hate that person? Who do you blame? In an ideal futuristic society we would be able to alter our genetics in such a way that we do not present an unnecessary threat to others, if we do indeed discover that we're naturally predisposed towards horrible acts of violence.

ohashi 12y ago
Start working on a way to fix them.
rolleiflex 12y ago
To extend, how do you 'punish' those who have those genetics and physical traits, but haven't committed a crime yet? How do you treat a perfectly innocent someone who cannot control it and didn't ask to be born that way? What do you do with that individual?
- spain 12y ago
  I would argue that not all those with the required traits for committing crimes do not actually go on to committing those crimes, so it would be wrong to preemptively punish them. Instead we should offer something like therapy to help them better control their instincts.
the_cat_kittles 12y ago
in a video that i discovered reading the comments on hn, marshall rosenberg argues that the concept and practice of punishment should be abandoned all together. this is a long (3 hour) video, but its actually an amazing point of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwXH4hNfgPg&list=FLtlBbsoKI-JBFCXMeb48TfA&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwXH4hNfgPg&list=FLtlBbsoKI-...
hrjet 12y ago
>How do you punish someone who unwillingly commits atrocities I look at justice more as a "confinement of the criminal behavior" than "punishment of the criminal". Viewed that way, I don't see a dilemma in being able to better identify the behavior, especially if the confinement is done after a criminal act.
- serf 12y ago
  in my opinion more should should share your idea of justice. It's sad that the thought processes behind high-profile criminal justice are typically fueled by the desire to punish, by whatever society at large.
sliverstorm 12y ago
It isn't quite that black and white. Genetics generally predispose you to things, but they don't make you do things. I could be proven wrong eventually, but I don't believe that it's pre-determined that you will commit X crime. Part of equality is everyone is held to the same standard. So even if it is biologically harder for you to resist falling into a murderous rage, you are still just as responsible if you do.
mnw21cam 12y ago
This has been dealt with in court in real life, for cases where someone has killed someone else while sleepwalking, and not had any recollection of the event, or any intent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicidal_sleepwalking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicidal_sleepwalking As far as I can see, sometimes the killer is acquitted, sometimes is sentenced, and sometimes the sleepwalking counts as insanity, meaning the killer is committed to a secure hospital.
iSnow 12y ago
>How do you punish someone who unwillingly commits atrocities, someone who cannot control it and didn't ask to be born that way? Usually you confine them to the closed psychiatric ward, to either be sedated or locked up there instead of in prison.

ohashi 12y ago

Start working on a way to fix them.

rolleiflex 12y ago

To extend, how do you 'punish' those who have those genetics and physical traits, but haven't committed a crime yet? How do you treat a perfectly innocent someone who cannot control it and didn't ask to be born that way? What do you do with that individual?

spain 12y ago
I would argue that not all those with the required traits for committing crimes do not actually go on to committing those crimes, so it would be wrong to preemptively punish them. Instead we should offer something like therapy to help them better control their instincts.

the_cat_kittles 12y ago

in a video that i discovered reading the comments on hn, marshall rosenberg argues that the concept and practice of punishment should be abandoned all together. this is a long (3 hour) video, but its actually an amazing point of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwXH4hNfgPg&list=FLtlBbsoKI-JBFCXMeb48TfA&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwXH4hNfgPg&list=FLtlBbsoKI-...

hrjet 12y ago

>How do you punish someone who unwillingly commits atrocities I look at justice more as a "confinement of the criminal behavior" than "punishment of the criminal". Viewed that way, I don't see a dilemma in being able to better identify the behavior, especially if the confinement is done after a criminal act.

serf 12y ago
in my opinion more should should share your idea of justice. It's sad that the thought processes behind high-profile criminal justice are typically fueled by the desire to punish, by whatever society at large.

sliverstorm 12y ago

It isn't quite that black and white. Genetics generally predispose you to things, but they don't make you do things. I could be proven wrong eventually, but I don't believe that it's pre-determined that you will commit X crime. Part of equality is everyone is held to the same standard. So even if it is biologically harder for you to resist falling into a murderous rage, you are still just as responsible if you do.

mnw21cam 12y ago

This has been dealt with in court in real life, for cases where someone has killed someone else while sleepwalking, and not had any recollection of the event, or any intent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicidal_sleepwalking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicidal_sleepwalking As far as I can see, sometimes the killer is acquitted, sometimes is sentenced, and sometimes the sleepwalking counts as insanity, meaning the killer is committed to a secure hospital.

iSnow 12y ago

>How do you punish someone who unwillingly commits atrocities, someone who cannot control it and didn't ask to be born that way? Usually you confine them to the closed psychiatric ward, to either be sedated or locked up there instead of in prison.