8 ms·

Is there a practical reason why there's so much empty space with this new design, and why so little valuable content and functionality is visible by default? V

by Pacabel 12y ago

Is there a practical reason why there's so much empty space with this new design, and why so little valuable content and functionality is visible by default? Viewing the existing site in a desktop browser, I get to see the description of Haskell, and a bunch of useful links about learning it, downloading an implementation, using it, and participating in the community. Recent news items and upcoming events are also visible, as is the search field. This new design lacks pretty much all of that. Instead of useful content, links and functionality, all I'm seeing are large areas of purple and white, and an extremely blurry photo, along with content of very limited value. I just can't see this new design being beneficial in any way. It makes it much harder to get useful information about Haskell, which seems very contradictory to what a website like this should be doing.

vamega 12y ago
Yeah, I just viewed it and agree that the blurry photograph should be replaced with something else. It somehow detracts from the page.
gipp 12y ago
The existing site is a pretty unappealing design and is extremely overcrowded; this has been complained about for years.
- Pacabel 12y ago
  What's "unappealing" about the existing design? The existing design seems to do a good job of using the space available to convey a large amount of important and relevant information, with very little effort required from the viewer. For example, a viewer of the existing site can quickly get to various types of documentation right away, without having to click on a link to visit a dedicated "Documentation" page, like with the new design. The same goes for news and community details, as well. An inefficient, unnecessary extra link click or press is now needed to get to very core information. It isn't worth making an informational website look "pretty" if that means ruining its ability to effectively convey information.
  - radmuzom 12y ago
    Upvoted you. Even I find the new design to be terrible. One more point - the old webpage seems to be "simple" HTML - which loads properly even in very bad internet connections and old browsers like Hacker News. The new design seems to include video links in the homepage, which is always a bad idea, however "modern" you want it to be. Also, the old homepage immediately gives a sense that Haskell is mature - with separate links about the language, books, libraries, IDEs, etc. The new webpage does not convey anything at all.
rtfeldman 12y ago
Yes - the practical reason is to focus on the newcomer's experience. Information overload is actively harmful to someone coming to haskell.org to learn about the language from scratch. Omitting content that is primarily valuable to experienced Haskellers is a feature, not a bug.
- Pacabel 12y ago
  This sounds like a dangerous trade off to be making. It's reminiscent of what we saw with GNOME 3, or even Windows 8. The experience is made much worse for existing users, in a vain attempt to "simplify" the design to allegedly appeal to new users who may not even really exist in practice. It's obvious now that it didn't work well in those cases, and I don't see why this case would be any different. As an occasional Haskell user, I'm served much, much better by the existing site than by this new design. The existing one lets me get to the information I'm looking for with minimal effort. This new site denies me that accessibility, I'm afraid to say. I don't see the point in trying to attract new users if doing so also means harming the experiences of established users. Drawing in new users becomes pointless if retention starts to suffer.
  - rtfeldman 12y ago
    This case is different because it's an introductory page rather than a tool intended for heavy daily use, like GNOME or Windows. Newbies are going to head to haskell.org when they want to learn about the language, and it's sensible for them to be greeted by a pleasant introduction to the language. As "an occasional Haskell user," you aren't the target audience for the haskell.org landing page. :) If you're visiting on a regular basis, there's no reason your needs couldn't be met by some page other than the landing page.
  - nbouscal 12y ago
    As an established user, I navigate directly to hackage or the wiki. I don't remember the last time I hit the homepage.
  - cgag 12y ago
    i'm pretty sure existing users don't go to the official haskell site
lenkite 12y ago
The real reason is that one of the standard bootstrap layout examples was used. The 'bootstrapped' web today is extraordinarily boring. It is the same big banner followed by striped two column grid again and again and again.

by Pacabel 12y ago

vamega 12y ago

Yeah, I just viewed it and agree that the blurry photograph should be replaced with something else. It somehow detracts from the page.

gipp 12y ago

The existing site is a pretty unappealing design and is extremely overcrowded; this has been complained about for years.

Pacabel 12y ago
What's "unappealing" about the existing design? The existing design seems to do a good job of using the space available to convey a large amount of important and relevant information, with very little effort required from the viewer. For example, a viewer of the existing site can quickly get to various types of documentation right away, without having to click on a link to visit a dedicated "Documentation" page, like with the new design. The same goes for news and community details, as well. An inefficient, unnecessary extra link click or press is now needed to get to very core information. It isn't worth making an informational website look "pretty" if that means ruining its ability to effectively convey information.
- radmuzom 12y ago
  Upvoted you. Even I find the new design to be terrible. One more point - the old webpage seems to be "simple" HTML - which loads properly even in very bad internet connections and old browsers like Hacker News. The new design seems to include video links in the homepage, which is always a bad idea, however "modern" you want it to be. Also, the old homepage immediately gives a sense that Haskell is mature - with separate links about the language, books, libraries, IDEs, etc. The new webpage does not convey anything at all.

rtfeldman 12y ago

Yes - the practical reason is to focus on the newcomer's experience. Information overload is actively harmful to someone coming to haskell.org to learn about the language from scratch. Omitting content that is primarily valuable to experienced Haskellers is a feature, not a bug.

Pacabel 12y ago
This sounds like a dangerous trade off to be making. It's reminiscent of what we saw with GNOME 3, or even Windows 8. The experience is made much worse for existing users, in a vain attempt to "simplify" the design to allegedly appeal to new users who may not even really exist in practice. It's obvious now that it didn't work well in those cases, and I don't see why this case would be any different. As an occasional Haskell user, I'm served much, much better by the existing site than by this new design. The existing one lets me get to the information I'm looking for with minimal effort. This new site denies me that accessibility, I'm afraid to say. I don't see the point in trying to attract new users if doing so also means harming the experiences of established users. Drawing in new users becomes pointless if retention starts to suffer.
- rtfeldman 12y ago
  This case is different because it's an introductory page rather than a tool intended for heavy daily use, like GNOME or Windows. Newbies are going to head to haskell.org when they want to learn about the language, and it's sensible for them to be greeted by a pleasant introduction to the language. As "an occasional Haskell user," you aren't the target audience for the haskell.org landing page. :) If you're visiting on a regular basis, there's no reason your needs couldn't be met by some page other than the landing page.
- nbouscal 12y ago
  As an established user, I navigate directly to hackage or the wiki. I don't remember the last time I hit the homepage.
- cgag 12y ago
  i'm pretty sure existing users don't go to the official haskell site

lenkite 12y ago

The real reason is that one of the standard bootstrap layout examples was used. The 'bootstrapped' web today is extraordinarily boring. It is the same big banner followed by striped two column grid again and again and again.