4 ms·

Why is that number ridiculous? At ~1% of the workforce, this means that the average American laborer needs 2.5 days/year of lawyer time to keep them fully occup

by etrain 12y ago

Why is that number ridiculous? At ~1% of the workforce, this means that the average American laborer needs 2.5 days/year of lawyer time to keep them fully occupied, which honestly doesn't feel like such a stretch to me, given that they need to be involved in hiring/firing, expansion, policy changes, deals closing, etc. Also - note that not all licensed attorneys are practicing, so it may even be more like 1 lawyer-day/year per worker.

Retric 12y ago
The problem is it's not being automated. Does every apartment complex in NY city really need a significantly different lease? I can buy I car without a lawyer why not a house? Do I really need a lawyer before highering a housekeeper? Something like LegalZoom seems like a reasonable option for 80+% of all deals that currently use a Lawyer. Edit: As to policy changes, a trade association could reasonably cover all most / all cab companies or even Hospitals.
- LordKano 12y ago
  I would suspect that it has something to do with the fact that a scam artist seller will hurt you a lot more with a bad deal on a house than with a bad deal on a car.
  - Retric 12y ago
    A bad car can easily kill you. IMO, a large part of that difference is from how involved the State government is when selling a car. Property can also have far more limitations like a local homeowners association or right of way easement. Still, taxes can also be vary complex but few people need a Lawyer to look at them. Simply covering the 80% case can add a lot of economic efficiency.
- gamblor956 12y ago
  The whole point of hiring a lawyer is to get customized legal advice or documents that pertain to your situation. If you're happy with using general advice/documents that may not actually fit your needs, you're free not to hire a lawyer. It's basically the same as the choice between using stock Wordpress or hiring a developer to customize it for you (or to make you a custom CMS), except that the consequences are usually more dire. Also, some of your examples are a bit odd. I don't know anyone who's hired a lawyer to buy a house or hire a housekeeper/nanny/gardener--is that some sort of weird Silicon Valley practice?
  - amalcon 12y ago
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, ask a lawyer acquaintance of yours instead of trusting me if this is any more than idle curiosity. A lawyer's job when buying a house is mostly dealing with the mortgage. They can explain the mortgage paperwork to you, and find traps like balloon payments or weird escrow structures that a layman might miss. If you pay out of pocket, there's generally a lot less for a lawyer to do. There are of course exceptions where a lawyer is very important, like reviewing the bylaws of a condominium or homeowners' association, or explaining unusual clauses in the sale contract. Unfortunately it's hard to tell when you've run into one of these without having past experience or hiring a lawyer.
steveeq1 12y ago
2.5 days of lawyer time at $350/hr comes out to be $7000 a year which is a lot of money to most laborers. Even if the distribution of lawyer time is skewed, it's still a very high number.
- graeme 12y ago
  You're mixing two numbers. Lawyers time by the above calculation = actual hours spent working by lawyers $350 = rate for BILLABLE hours by the higher end of attorneys Lawyers don't bill 8 hours for 8 hours spent working. There is a lot of overhead.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

by etrain 12y ago

Retric 12y ago

The problem is it's not being automated. Does every apartment complex in NY city really need a significantly different lease? I can buy I car without a lawyer why not a house? Do I really need a lawyer before highering a housekeeper? Something like LegalZoom seems like a reasonable option for 80+% of all deals that currently use a Lawyer. Edit: As to policy changes, a trade association could reasonably cover all most / all cab companies or even Hospitals.

LordKano 12y ago
I would suspect that it has something to do with the fact that a scam artist seller will hurt you a lot more with a bad deal on a house than with a bad deal on a car.
- Retric 12y ago
  A bad car can easily kill you. IMO, a large part of that difference is from how involved the State government is when selling a car. Property can also have far more limitations like a local homeowners association or right of way easement. Still, taxes can also be vary complex but few people need a Lawyer to look at them. Simply covering the 80% case can add a lot of economic efficiency.
gamblor956 12y ago
The whole point of hiring a lawyer is to get customized legal advice or documents that pertain to your situation. If you're happy with using general advice/documents that may not actually fit your needs, you're free not to hire a lawyer. It's basically the same as the choice between using stock Wordpress or hiring a developer to customize it for you (or to make you a custom CMS), except that the consequences are usually more dire. Also, some of your examples are a bit odd. I don't know anyone who's hired a lawyer to buy a house or hire a housekeeper/nanny/gardener--is that some sort of weird Silicon Valley practice?
- amalcon 12y ago
  Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, ask a lawyer acquaintance of yours instead of trusting me if this is any more than idle curiosity. A lawyer's job when buying a house is mostly dealing with the mortgage. They can explain the mortgage paperwork to you, and find traps like balloon payments or weird escrow structures that a layman might miss. If you pay out of pocket, there's generally a lot less for a lawyer to do. There are of course exceptions where a lawyer is very important, like reviewing the bylaws of a condominium or homeowners' association, or explaining unusual clauses in the sale contract. Unfortunately it's hard to tell when you've run into one of these without having past experience or hiring a lawyer.

steveeq1 12y ago

2.5 days of lawyer time at $350/hr comes out to be $7000 a year which is a lot of money to most laborers. Even if the distribution of lawyer time is skewed, it's still a very high number.

graeme 12y ago
You're mixing two numbers. Lawyers time by the above calculation = actual hours spent working by lawyers $350 = rate for BILLABLE hours by the higher end of attorneys Lawyers don't bill 8 hours for 8 hours spent working. There is a lot of overhead.
deleted 12y ago
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