4 ms·

So let me get this straight, you want netflix in HD, but you don't want to pay for it? Who's going to pay for it if not you?

diminoten 12y ago
I already pay for it. I pay Netflix in the form of a monthly subscription, and I pay Comcast to deliver me "blast" Internet speeds of 100mbps. An HD stream is well below 100mbps, so I expect to be able to stream Netflix.
- bitJericho 12y ago
  Oh sure that's no problem, once netflix pays comcast.
  - diminoten 12y ago
    Which makes sense, given the lopsidedness of traffic in the peering agreement. And it's also what they're doing, currently. So yay for that.
    - bitJericho 12y ago
      Why would that make sense when you the customer want to retrieve traffic at an advertised rate from a company you're paying? Surely netflix also pays for traffic at their advertised rate from their ISP. What's the problem? Oh yeah, comcast et al want to be greedy.
      - diminoten 12y ago
        What makes sense about a free peering agreement where only one party benefits?
        bitJericho 12y ago
        Because you as the customer are already paying your ISP for receiving it.
        diminoten 12y ago
        Unsurprisingly, you don't know what my contract with Comcast says in it. I do, and I'm not paying my ISP for what you're saying I'm paying my ISP for.
        bitJericho 12y ago
        You're not paying to receive traffic from the internet at a minimum designated speed? Than you aren't buying an internet service good enough to receive streaming data from netflix or other similar services. Your options are to either pay more and get decent internet service or make netflix pay for it (and charge you via their fees). That second option would destroy the internet as we have it today.
        diminoten 12y ago
        From the Internet? Yes. I pay for a certain speed (up to, but whatever), but Netflix->Comcast doesn't go through the Internet. Currently, Netflix uses some of the 8 bucks I give them to ensure my videos are in HD by entering into peering agreements with my ISP. I'd like to not have to pay Comcast too, as they already charge Netflix.
        bitJericho 12y ago
        That's not what's going on. Netflix wants to plug a cable into Comcast's network so that you can receive the data quicker. This would save both Comcast and Netflix money because they don't have to pay another company's bandwidth fees. Regardless, Comcast wishes to charge for Netflix for the priviledge of connecting to their network. They want to charge Netflix access to Comcast's customers (you, the one already paying the big bucks for the service), not to plug a cable into a router. http://blog.netflix.com/2014/04/the-case-against-isp-tolls.html http://blog.netflix.com/2014/04/the-case-against-isp-tolls.h...
- pdonis 12y ago
  > I pay Comcast to deliver me "blast" Internet speeds of 100mbps No, you pay Comcast to "try" to deliver 100mbps. If they feel like it. And if nobody else on your street is also watching Netflix in HD. And... If you disagree, please show me where in your Comcast contract the service level guarantee is.
  - diminoten 12y ago
    So every single Comcast customer should have to pay for what just the Netflix customers use? That makes sense...
    - pdonis 12y ago
      > So every single Comcast customer should have to pay for what just the Netflix customers use? How did you get that from what I said? I was merely pointing out that you are not paying Comcast for guaranteed bandwidth; you're only paying for some nominal bandwidth that isn't actually guaranteed. That's true regardless of what the bandwidth is used for. But that doesn't mean every Comcast customer has to pay for the same nominal bandwidth; AFAIK Comcast, like pretty much every ISP, has several "tiers" of service with different nominal bandwidths. If you don't need to watch Netflix, you pay for a lower tier of service. The real question is: would you be willing to pay Comcast more for bandwidth that was guaranteed, instead of just nominal? If the answer were "yes", then Comcast could just charge its Netflix customers, who really want the guaranteed bandwidth, more, and use the proceeds to upgrade its network. But from what you've posted in this thread so far, I would guess your answer is "no", because you think you're already paying Netflix for the service, when in fact you're only paying Netflix for access to its content; you're not paying them for the bandwidth you actually need to watch the content, because they don't provide you bandwidth, Comcast does. The fact that Comcast is going after Netflix for that money instead of its customers would seem to indicate that Comcast thinks the answer is "no" too; they think (apparently correctly) that their customers either don't realize or don't care that the Comcast network they are currently paying for is not sufficient to stream Netflix content to the number of Comcast customers that want to watch it. So since, from Comcast's point of view, they can't get their customers to pay for upgrading their network to handle Netflix traffic in high volume, they're trying to get Netflix to pay instead. Which ultimately means the customers (i.e., you) are going to pay anyway, since Netflix is going to pass on the increased cost of accessing Comcast's (and other ISPs') network somehow. (Btw, please bear in mind that I'm stating all this from Comcast's point of view, but that doesn't mean I agree with Comcast's point of view. From my point of view, Comcast should already have been upgrading its network, using the extra money they've been getting by extracting monopoly rents for many years now. But the fact is that they haven't, so there is now a capability gap that needs to be filled somehow. Filling it by allowing Comcast to charge Netflix for faster access to its network just means Comcast's customers end up paying, as I said above. Net neutrality is at least an attempt to make ISPs, instead of users, pay for the upgrades they should have already done but didn't.)

diminoten 12y ago

I already pay for it. I pay Netflix in the form of a monthly subscription, and I pay Comcast to deliver me "blast" Internet speeds of 100mbps. An HD stream is well below 100mbps, so I expect to be able to stream Netflix.

bitJericho 12y ago
Oh sure that's no problem, once netflix pays comcast.
- diminoten 12y ago
  Which makes sense, given the lopsidedness of traffic in the peering agreement. And it's also what they're doing, currently. So yay for that.
  - bitJericho 12y ago
    Why would that make sense when you the customer want to retrieve traffic at an advertised rate from a company you're paying? Surely netflix also pays for traffic at their advertised rate from their ISP. What's the problem? Oh yeah, comcast et al want to be greedy.
    - diminoten 12y ago
      What makes sense about a free peering agreement where only one party benefits?
      - bitJericho 12y ago
        Because you as the customer are already paying your ISP for receiving it.
        diminoten 12y ago
        Unsurprisingly, you don't know what my contract with Comcast says in it. I do, and I'm not paying my ISP for what you're saying I'm paying my ISP for.
        bitJericho 12y ago
        You're not paying to receive traffic from the internet at a minimum designated speed? Than you aren't buying an internet service good enough to receive streaming data from netflix or other similar services. Your options are to either pay more and get decent internet service or make netflix pay for it (and charge you via their fees). That second option would destroy the internet as we have it today.
        diminoten 12y ago
        From the Internet? Yes. I pay for a certain speed (up to, but whatever), but Netflix->Comcast doesn't go through the Internet. Currently, Netflix uses some of the 8 bucks I give them to ensure my videos are in HD by entering into peering agreements with my ISP. I'd like to not have to pay Comcast too, as they already charge Netflix.
        bitJericho 12y ago
        That's not what's going on. Netflix wants to plug a cable into Comcast's network so that you can receive the data quicker. This would save both Comcast and Netflix money because they don't have to pay another company's bandwidth fees. Regardless, Comcast wishes to charge for Netflix for the priviledge of connecting to their network. They want to charge Netflix access to Comcast's customers (you, the one already paying the big bucks for the service), not to plug a cable into a router. http://blog.netflix.com/2014/04/the-case-against-isp-tolls.html http://blog.netflix.com/2014/04/the-case-against-isp-tolls.h...
pdonis 12y ago
> I pay Comcast to deliver me "blast" Internet speeds of 100mbps No, you pay Comcast to "try" to deliver 100mbps. If they feel like it. And if nobody else on your street is also watching Netflix in HD. And... If you disagree, please show me where in your Comcast contract the service level guarantee is.
- diminoten 12y ago
  So every single Comcast customer should have to pay for what just the Netflix customers use? That makes sense...
  - pdonis 12y ago
    > So every single Comcast customer should have to pay for what just the Netflix customers use? How did you get that from what I said? I was merely pointing out that you are not paying Comcast for guaranteed bandwidth; you're only paying for some nominal bandwidth that isn't actually guaranteed. That's true regardless of what the bandwidth is used for. But that doesn't mean every Comcast customer has to pay for the same nominal bandwidth; AFAIK Comcast, like pretty much every ISP, has several "tiers" of service with different nominal bandwidths. If you don't need to watch Netflix, you pay for a lower tier of service. The real question is: would you be willing to pay Comcast more for bandwidth that was guaranteed, instead of just nominal? If the answer were "yes", then Comcast could just charge its Netflix customers, who really want the guaranteed bandwidth, more, and use the proceeds to upgrade its network. But from what you've posted in this thread so far, I would guess your answer is "no", because you think you're already paying Netflix for the service, when in fact you're only paying Netflix for access to its content; you're not paying them for the bandwidth you actually need to watch the content, because they don't provide you bandwidth, Comcast does. The fact that Comcast is going after Netflix for that money instead of its customers would seem to indicate that Comcast thinks the answer is "no" too; they think (apparently correctly) that their customers either don't realize or don't care that the Comcast network they are currently paying for is not sufficient to stream Netflix content to the number of Comcast customers that want to watch it. So since, from Comcast's point of view, they can't get their customers to pay for upgrading their network to handle Netflix traffic in high volume, they're trying to get Netflix to pay instead. Which ultimately means the customers (i.e., you) are going to pay anyway, since Netflix is going to pass on the increased cost of accessing Comcast's (and other ISPs') network somehow. (Btw, please bear in mind that I'm stating all this from Comcast's point of view, but that doesn't mean I agree with Comcast's point of view. From my point of view, Comcast should already have been upgrading its network, using the extra money they've been getting by extracting monopoly rents for many years now. But the fact is that they haven't, so there is now a capability gap that needs to be filled somehow. Filling it by allowing Comcast to charge Netflix for faster access to its network just means Comcast's customers end up paying, as I said above. Net neutrality is at least an attempt to make ISPs, instead of users, pay for the upgrades they should have already done but didn't.)