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I have a few friends who worked at RenTech, and the one thing that bothers me is the secrecy. It's the one company I know of (outside of security-clearance jobs

I have a few friends who worked at RenTech, and the one thing that bothers me is the secrecy. It's the one company I know of (outside of security-clearance jobs) where you're not allowed to say that you worked there. I feel like that probably makes it harder for people to resume their careers if they leave. Given that the best way to get a decent startup/VC job is to come out of a hedge fund, I can imagine it hurting people if they can't say where they worked. I've heard that there's PhD bigotry there, too, and that's it's nearly impossible to get in if you don't have a PhD; but I don't know enough to confirm or deny that. It could be completely untrue, or it could just be that most people who make the cut and know about RenTech happen to have PhDs. He sounds like a stand-up guy, though, and compared to the ethical dirt on an average Silicon Valley CEO, this stuff (which isn't even ethical dirt so much as practical disagreement) is negligible.

JumpCrisscross 12y ago
It is not impossible to get a RenTech job offer without a PhD. Yes, they will batter you down during interviews if you don't have one. Taking a job at Renaissance Technologies is a commitment, on both sides. The culture of secrecy and non-competes is designed to filter away, even before the interview, candidates (a) unsure about their willingness to commit and (b) looking for a short-term career booster.
- sillysaurus3 12y ago
  The culture of secrecy and non-competes is designed to filter away, even before the interview, candidates (a) unsure about their willingness to commit What are the benefits of working at RenTech? They seem to be asking candidates to take a huge risk to their careers, due to the legally-mandated secrecy. That suggests there's a proportionally huge payoff in working there. What is it?
  - dman 12y ago
    Apart from the great pay you get to invest in RenTech funds. I might be wrong but I think at this point theyre just working to manage their own money and not taking any money from investors. Above all else - working with smart people is its own reward.
    - freyr 12y ago
      > Above all else - working with smart people is its own reward Of course, there's also the reward of building, creating, and contributing to something that extends beyond yourself. It's hard to believe that a career at a secretive hedge fund that invests its own funds would provide much along that axis of career satisfaction. Some individuals are motivated by their interaction with smart colleagues, but others by the process of the work itself, others by financial incentive, others by prestige, others by societal impact, etc. There is no one-size-fits-all metric that guarantees satisfaction.
  - foobarqux 12y ago
    I think all employees can invest in the Medallion fund, which has a 50%/year return.
    - sillysaurus3 12y ago
      Would anyone speculate about what mathematics and methods they use to achieve a 50%/yr return? I wonder if there's a way to reverse engineer their model by e.g. looking up which research papers their employees published prior to joining RenTech.
      - foobarqux 12y ago
        If anyone knew they wouldn't certainly wouldn't share it. No one seemingly knows because no other fund has a comparable return, which is surprising because typically ideas diffuse as employees go work for other firms. I suspect they use the ability to continue to invest in Medallion as an incentive to prevent people from going to work elsewhere.
        sillysaurus3 12y ago
        It should be possible to figure out their methods. Besides, it'll be a lot of fun. Is there a data dump somewhere of Medallion's trades over time? Since the stock market is public, that means we could treat their investment engine as a black box, and try to reverse engineer their engine by looking at the decisions it makes over time. We should pay careful attention to how it performed leading up to the 2008 crash, since that reveals how their engine performs in adverse conditions, which might indicate what underlying metrics their engine is using.
        reverend_gonzo 12y ago
        Any firm's trades are absolutely not public information.
        sillysaurus3 12y ago
zeeshanm 12y ago
A friend of mine got an interview there while he was still in in school for undergrad.
- ZBA 12y ago
  Mind if I ask what his degree was in? Would imagine it was something like computer science, as I've only ever heard of those in maths/stats/physics getting in with a PhD.
  - zeeshanm 12y ago
    He studied applied math and psychology. But you're right they're biased toward cs majors.
- foobarqux 12y ago
  He didn't get the job? How talented was he? Programming or quant work?
foobarqux 12y ago
Why did they leave? Everyone makes it seem like Rentech is head and shoulders above everyone else and being able to invest in Medallion with a %50/yr return is probably one of the best bonuses anywhere. Bad work conditions?
kamaal 12y ago
Why don't they want their ex employees to disclose that they worked there? I can understand a government intelligence unit demanding that, but why would a hedge fund put such a restriction? Plus they way you describe, any body who can get in there- Putnam winners, top Math PhD's probably already have better offers.
- parenthesis 12y ago
  Wikipedia has a list of people who used to work there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_technologies#Renaissance_alumni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_technologies#Renais...
incision 12y ago
>'Given that the best way to get a decent startup/VC job is to come out of a hedge fund, I can imagine it hurting people if they can't say where they worked.' Well, for cleared positions there's a pretty standard lingo that allows people to say without saying by referring to a particular address or bit of geography. The restrictions seem mostly about preventing people from making their history trivially searchable by the uninitiated. I would expect there to be something similar for these people? Just say "I was in Suffolk County" or whatever.
auntienomen 12y ago
It's the one company I know of (outside of security-clearance jobs) where you're not allowed to say that you worked there. Are you sure about this? There are plenty of people on LinkedIn who identify themselves as working at/having workd at RenTech. Furthermore, you can also find on LinkedIn people who identify themselves as having been employed by the various non-profits which carry out govt crypto research.

JumpCrisscross 12y ago

It is not impossible to get a RenTech job offer without a PhD. Yes, they will batter you down during interviews if you don't have one. Taking a job at Renaissance Technologies is a commitment, on both sides. The culture of secrecy and non-competes is designed to filter away, even before the interview, candidates (a) unsure about their willingness to commit and (b) looking for a short-term career booster.

sillysaurus3 12y ago
The culture of secrecy and non-competes is designed to filter away, even before the interview, candidates (a) unsure about their willingness to commit What are the benefits of working at RenTech? They seem to be asking candidates to take a huge risk to their careers, due to the legally-mandated secrecy. That suggests there's a proportionally huge payoff in working there. What is it?
- dman 12y ago
  Apart from the great pay you get to invest in RenTech funds. I might be wrong but I think at this point theyre just working to manage their own money and not taking any money from investors. Above all else - working with smart people is its own reward.
  - freyr 12y ago
    > Above all else - working with smart people is its own reward Of course, there's also the reward of building, creating, and contributing to something that extends beyond yourself. It's hard to believe that a career at a secretive hedge fund that invests its own funds would provide much along that axis of career satisfaction. Some individuals are motivated by their interaction with smart colleagues, but others by the process of the work itself, others by financial incentive, others by prestige, others by societal impact, etc. There is no one-size-fits-all metric that guarantees satisfaction.
- foobarqux 12y ago
  I think all employees can invest in the Medallion fund, which has a 50%/year return.
  - sillysaurus3 12y ago
    Would anyone speculate about what mathematics and methods they use to achieve a 50%/yr return? I wonder if there's a way to reverse engineer their model by e.g. looking up which research papers their employees published prior to joining RenTech.
    - foobarqux 12y ago
      If anyone knew they wouldn't certainly wouldn't share it. No one seemingly knows because no other fund has a comparable return, which is surprising because typically ideas diffuse as employees go work for other firms. I suspect they use the ability to continue to invest in Medallion as an incentive to prevent people from going to work elsewhere.
      - sillysaurus3 12y ago
        It should be possible to figure out their methods. Besides, it'll be a lot of fun. Is there a data dump somewhere of Medallion's trades over time? Since the stock market is public, that means we could treat their investment engine as a black box, and try to reverse engineer their engine by looking at the decisions it makes over time. We should pay careful attention to how it performed leading up to the 2008 crash, since that reveals how their engine performs in adverse conditions, which might indicate what underlying metrics their engine is using.
        reverend_gonzo 12y ago
        Any firm's trades are absolutely not public information.
        sillysaurus3 12y ago

zeeshanm 12y ago

A friend of mine got an interview there while he was still in in school for undergrad.

ZBA 12y ago
Mind if I ask what his degree was in? Would imagine it was something like computer science, as I've only ever heard of those in maths/stats/physics getting in with a PhD.
- zeeshanm 12y ago
  He studied applied math and psychology. But you're right they're biased toward cs majors.
foobarqux 12y ago
He didn't get the job? How talented was he? Programming or quant work?

foobarqux 12y ago

Why did they leave? Everyone makes it seem like Rentech is head and shoulders above everyone else and being able to invest in Medallion with a %50/yr return is probably one of the best bonuses anywhere. Bad work conditions?

kamaal 12y ago

Why don't they want their ex employees to disclose that they worked there? I can understand a government intelligence unit demanding that, but why would a hedge fund put such a restriction? Plus they way you describe, any body who can get in there- Putnam winners, top Math PhD's probably already have better offers.

parenthesis 12y ago
Wikipedia has a list of people who used to work there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_technologies#Renaissance_alumni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_technologies#Renais...

incision 12y ago

>'Given that the best way to get a decent startup/VC job is to come out of a hedge fund, I can imagine it hurting people if they can't say where they worked.' Well, for cleared positions there's a pretty standard lingo that allows people to say without saying by referring to a particular address or bit of geography. The restrictions seem mostly about preventing people from making their history trivially searchable by the uninitiated. I would expect there to be something similar for these people? Just say "I was in Suffolk County" or whatever.

auntienomen 12y ago

It's the one company I know of (outside of security-clearance jobs) where you're not allowed to say that you worked there. Are you sure about this? There are plenty of people on LinkedIn who identify themselves as working at/having workd at RenTech. Furthermore, you can also find on LinkedIn people who identify themselves as having been employed by the various non-profits which carry out govt crypto research.