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Seems like Japan would be a prime candidate for universal basic income. Above average unemployment + high social welfare + high productivity/automation.

by byw 12y ago

dicemoose 12y ago
I certainly would vote for politicians that would support universal basic income in Japan. A calculation done in the past few years found that ¥50,000 a month (about $500 US) could be paid out to each citizen without raising any extra revenue. Something closer to ¥170,000 a month would probably be more reasonable, if we could figure it out.
- ddeck 12y ago
  Who did the calculation? I'd be keen to see the breakdown. My rough estimates put the cost of JPY50k/month to the adult population at somewhere around USD 700 billion/year and JPY170k/month at USD2,400 billion, or around 47% of Japan's GDP. Total social security spending is currently in the order of USD300 billion. Given that the Japan Government currently spends (excluding interest costs) around USD230 billion more than it earns in revenue each year, such a proposal would be extremely difficult to implement. For reference, in 2014 the Japan Government has: - Outstanding debt of ~USD12,100 billion - Annual revenue of ~USD691 billion - Annual spending of ~USD921 billion.
  - dicemoose 12y ago
    The 50k JPY figure comes from the budget for social welfare in Japan. Here is an article where it is broken down for 2009: http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 But, let me try it with figures from 2011.[1] 107,495 billion JPY for total social welfare 32,463 billion JPY for national health insurance The author deducted the amount spent for national health insurance from total social welfare. That leaves: 75, 032 billion JPY It should only be for the adult population, but I can't find numbers for just adults, so I divided by 120million. 625,266 JPY annually or 52105.5 JPY a month. IIRC social insurance is not included in the general budget. As far as the 170k JPY calculation, that was just my imagining what would be a reasonable basic income. I have never crunched the numbers on it. But, it comes out to 2.04 million yen a year. Since the GDP per capita in Japan is 3.76 million JPY, this would be quite the redistribution of wealth. [1] http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf
    - ddeck 12y ago
      Thanks for the link, it's an interesting report. Indeed, the social insurance premiums/expenditures are not included in govt. revenue/expenditure figures, thus the disconnect. It's worth noting that ~25% (JPY29,040 billion - JPY20k per month per capita) of the funding for those programs comes from employer contributions for their employees.
nandemo 12y ago
??? Japan's unemployment rate is only 3.9%. EU's rate is 10.9% and US' is 6.1%. And Japan's social welfare means mostly pension and national health insurance. There's unemployment insurance, but you have to pay into it. Very few working-age, able-bodied people receive "free" welfare benefits.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  you have to be very careful comparing rates of unemployment, if not most statistics, of different countries as each has its own determination of what is and what isn't. Even in the US we have numerous measures of unemployment, the most common is the number of people actively seeking who do not have a job. Why not look at the population as a whole, determine the number of people 18-65 (or whatever retirement age is) who are working versus those not working. You can knock out percentages based on students, severely disabled, and such.

Seems like Japan would be a prime candidate for universal basic income. Above average unemployment + high social welfare + high productivity/automation.

by byw 12y ago

Seems like Japan would be a prime candidate for universal basic income. Above average unemployment + high social welfare + high productivity/automation.

dicemoose 12y ago

I certainly would vote for politicians that would support universal basic income in Japan. A calculation done in the past few years found that ¥50,000 a month (about $500 US) could be paid out to each citizen without raising any extra revenue. Something closer to ¥170,000 a month would probably be more reasonable, if we could figure it out.

ddeck 12y ago
Who did the calculation? I'd be keen to see the breakdown. My rough estimates put the cost of JPY50k/month to the adult population at somewhere around USD 700 billion/year and JPY170k/month at USD2,400 billion, or around 47% of Japan's GDP. Total social security spending is currently in the order of USD300 billion. Given that the Japan Government currently spends (excluding interest costs) around USD230 billion more than it earns in revenue each year, such a proposal would be extremely difficult to implement. For reference, in 2014 the Japan Government has: - Outstanding debt of ~USD12,100 billion - Annual revenue of ~USD691 billion - Annual spending of ~USD921 billion.
- dicemoose 12y ago
  The 50k JPY figure comes from the budget for social welfare in Japan. Here is an article where it is broken down for 2009: http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 But, let me try it with figures from 2011.[1] 107,495 billion JPY for total social welfare 32,463 billion JPY for national health insurance The author deducted the amount spent for national health insurance from total social welfare. That leaves: 75, 032 billion JPY It should only be for the adult population, but I can't find numbers for just adults, so I divided by 120million. 625,266 JPY annually or 52105.5 JPY a month. IIRC social insurance is not included in the general budget. As far as the 170k JPY calculation, that was just my imagining what would be a reasonable basic income. I have never crunched the numbers on it. But, it comes out to 2.04 million yen a year. Since the GDP per capita in Japan is 3.76 million JPY, this would be quite the redistribution of wealth. [1] http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf
  - ddeck 12y ago
    Thanks for the link, it's an interesting report. Indeed, the social insurance premiums/expenditures are not included in govt. revenue/expenditure figures, thus the disconnect. It's worth noting that ~25% (JPY29,040 billion - JPY20k per month per capita) of the funding for those programs comes from employer contributions for their employees.

nandemo 12y ago

??? Japan's unemployment rate is only 3.9%. EU's rate is 10.9% and US' is 6.1%. And Japan's social welfare means mostly pension and national health insurance. There's unemployment insurance, but you have to pay into it. Very few working-age, able-bodied people receive "free" welfare benefits.

Shivetya 12y ago
you have to be very careful comparing rates of unemployment, if not most statistics, of different countries as each has its own determination of what is and what isn't. Even in the US we have numerous measures of unemployment, the most common is the number of people actively seeking who do not have a job. Why not look at the population as a whole, determine the number of people 18-65 (or whatever retirement age is) who are working versus those not working. You can knock out percentages based on students, severely disabled, and such.