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What I would like to see is more of the Socrates style teaching. I think that's a lot like the kind of pleasant, interesting learning that you're talking about

What I would like to see is more of the Socrates style teaching. I think that's a lot like the kind of pleasant, interesting learning that you're talking about. I guess my question is this: if you say you're only going to teach voluntary, interest-based things, how do you make things interesting? How do you make math interesting to a kid who doesn't care if he knows how to add? How do you make history interesting to a kid who thinks it's awful? There's a lot of value to a well-rounded education. If you don't "force" kids to explore a variety of areas, they'll have a tendency to become focused and centered on the one thing that really gets them off. That's great, unless they start blowing off other subjects and whatnot. It's the reason most universities require a variety of general education classes for all freshman. So I think we have to "force" everyone to study different topics, not just the ones that intrinsically interest them. The key here is "forcing" the kids to like the material. How do we do this? Well, I don't have a great answer to that. The only thing I can point to is that one great teacher we've all had (or I hope you've had). That one teacher who was able to just turn you on completely. But it was the teacher that was special, not the material, not the procedure, not the tests, not the class. My favorite example is Mrs. Sams, my calculus teacher. When we got to the fundamental theorem of integral calculus, we held a mock wedding between the derivative and the integral.

curi 19y ago
I don't need to be forced to learn about a variety of things and do what's best for myself. A lot of people don't. Why assume that kids do, just because they are young? I realize some people think everyone needs to be forced to do what's best for them, which at least isn't an ageist double standard. But in that case, what exactly is purported to be preventing reason from informing our decisions, and why can't we overcome that obstacle? (BTW I do think there are various obstacles to a reason based life. Just not insurmountable ones. I'd rather face them than "force" people. Using force has downsides beyond being unpleasant. Like what if the forcer makes a mistake? The student will say, "I don't want to", but that was a given anyway. So how will errors be discovered and corrected?)
curi 19y ago
Another issue is that people who want to learn worthwhile stuff are often forced to go to school instead. I for one was often torn away from chess to be extremely bored at school. That is one of the results of indiscriminately forcing everyone to go to school with no regard for personal circumstance.
puppetsock 19y ago
"The only thing I can point to is that one great teacher we've all had (or I hope you've had). That one teacher who was able to just turn you on completely." Yes, I had one of those! I absolutely LOVED going to her class every day. I didn't really learn much, but that's OK!
leogo 19y ago
"It's the reason most universities require a variety of general education classes for all freshman." It's a bad thing universities do for a bad reason. They waste people's time. An individual knows best how to find their own talents. When a person knows exactly what they want to do, as long as it's moral, that's what they should be helped to do. You get a well rounded education by googling when you decide you need a question answered.

curi 19y ago

I don't need to be forced to learn about a variety of things and do what's best for myself. A lot of people don't. Why assume that kids do, just because they are young? I realize some people think everyone needs to be forced to do what's best for them, which at least isn't an ageist double standard. But in that case, what exactly is purported to be preventing reason from informing our decisions, and why can't we overcome that obstacle? (BTW I do think there are various obstacles to a reason based life. Just not insurmountable ones. I'd rather face them than "force" people. Using force has downsides beyond being unpleasant. Like what if the forcer makes a mistake? The student will say, "I don't want to", but that was a given anyway. So how will errors be discovered and corrected?)

curi 19y ago

Another issue is that people who want to learn worthwhile stuff are often forced to go to school instead. I for one was often torn away from chess to be extremely bored at school. That is one of the results of indiscriminately forcing everyone to go to school with no regard for personal circumstance.

puppetsock 19y ago

"The only thing I can point to is that one great teacher we've all had (or I hope you've had). That one teacher who was able to just turn you on completely." Yes, I had one of those! I absolutely LOVED going to her class every day. I didn't really learn much, but that's OK!

leogo 19y ago

"It's the reason most universities require a variety of general education classes for all freshman." It's a bad thing universities do for a bad reason. They waste people's time. An individual knows best how to find their own talents. When a person knows exactly what they want to do, as long as it's moral, that's what they should be helped to do. You get a well rounded education by googling when you decide you need a question answered.