5 ms·

Is 2014 the year of Linux on desktop? Joke aside, it makes me happy to see the transition from Microsoft to Linux has been a success. I remember reading the ne

by yoran 12y ago

Is 2014 the year of Linux on desktop? Joke aside, it makes me happy to see the transition from Microsoft to Linux has been a success. I remember reading the news headline when they first announced it. I wonder how many of the 22,000 government officers that use Ubuntu at work are now also using Ubuntu at home?

zanny 12y ago
They are not, unless there are Ubuntu computers available in stores. I actually know there are some German laws requiring computers be made available with varying or no OS, so it is much more likely than it is stateside to find an Ubuntu machine in store.
- macco 12y ago
  Unfortunately this is not the case. I only new 2 Online-Stores in Germany that sell Ubuntu maschines - one is my own: http://rockiger.com/ http://rockiger.com/ On the other hand, System76 computers are not available in Germany. Best bet is probably is Sputnik from Dell, although their Ubuntu configuration is not that good.
  - velodrome 12y ago
    The initial Dell sputnik was lacking (notably small screen resolution, price, etc.). The second rev is decent: 4th Generation Intel® Core™ i5-4210U processor (3M Cache, up to 2.7 GHz) UBUNTU Linux 12.04 LTS (64-bit) 13.3 inch LED Backlit Touch Display with Truelife and FHD resolution (1920 x 1080) 8GB1 DDR3L at 1600MHz 128GB Solid State Drive Intel® HD Graphics 4400 3.02 lbs Dell Price $1199.99
    - Already__Taken 12y ago
      I don't understand why you'd get this and not the cheaper exact model with windows.
      - zanny 12y ago
        Because there are few opportunities to buy a notebook without giving Microsoft a lot of money.
        jdong 12y ago
        Except you aren't giving Microsoft money while buying a Windows laptop. Nor can I see what you'd benefit from spending extra money to not give Microsoft money.
        zanny 12y ago
        > Nor can I see what you'd benefit Not giving Microsoft money means you are not funding the exact reason why Linux on the desktop is obscure in the first place. If MS did not have such comprehensive control of the consumer computer space, they would not have pervasive "deals" with every vendor to lock them in to shipping Windows across the board. Because if you, as a hardware manufacturer, install Ubuntu and make sure all the drivers work, out of the box it is no more buggy than Windows is at this point - probably less, and much more usable than Windows 8 for the average joe. But Microsoft has a firm grasp across the entire industry on all the vendors, and their ubiquity for 20 years has given them mindshare you cannot easily unravel. And giving them more money is not helping that.
      - velodrome 12y ago
        Yea, I would too. You can't customize the model (ram, SSD, etc).
  - kuschku 12y ago
    Notebooksbilliger.de sells all the laptops in their student lineup without OS – I bought my laptop there to save the license cost. Sometimes you can also find occasionally a laptop in a store with FreeDOS, but I've never seen one being sold with Ubuntu.
jonalmeida 12y ago
I believe it's been well documented by many writers that Linux on desktop (LOD) won't be a thing in the foreseeable future. If you think about it, Android's problems with open source allowing manufacturers to have their own flavours of Android, is one of the reasons why the average user might think TouchWiz (or other skins) is Android and that's why it sucks. Note that this is just _one_ reason I believe LOD won't be a thing, there surely are more.
- PyErr_SetString 12y ago
  "If you think about it, Android's problems with open source allowing manufacturers to have their own flavours of Android..." One is not really dependent on the other. You could use open source and not allow modifications or you could use closed source software and allow endless customization. I also don't consider it an "android problem" that manufacturers do this. Most of the good stuff ends up in standard android after a while, which wouldn't have happened if no one was allowed to make the changes in the first place.
  - jonalmeida 12y ago
    > One is not really dependent on the other. You could use open source and not allow modifications or you could use closed source software and allow endless customization. Good point. > Most of the good stuff ends up in standard android after a while, which wouldn't have happened if no one was allowed to make the changes in the first place. This was mainly due to Google pushing more stuff through Play Services. It would be nice if there was some more control/constraints on Linux flavours.
velodrome 12y ago
Honestly, it is going to take a while. The display drivers needs a lot of work (intel seems solid). Also, desktop itself needs to be super stable. Also, the software (from companies) is treated like a second-class citizen. Chrome is horrible on linux, --disable-gpu --audio-buffer-size what user is going to bother with that? I have to do all these tweaks and workarounds to get things to work. Regular users will not have the patience do this. The year of LOD will only happen when everything is stable and works. Imagine if CentOS, Debian, or Ubuntu on a server were this flaky? Would you use it? This is why people jump ship to Mac.
- eru 12y ago
  > Chrome is horrible on linux, --disable-gpu --audio-buffer-size what user is going to bother with that? Really? Chrome is a first class citizen on ChromeOS, so I'd expected other linuxes to be well served, too.
  - velodrome 12y ago
    Yep. I think it has to do with AMD drivers but I am not sure (I have seen some Nvidia users complain too). It started around Chrome 33. By the way, I don't think ChromeOS is a good example. Can you use Firefox on ChromeOS? I consider ChromeOS like purpose-specific, dedicated hardware (like a router). It is a start though. By the way, Chromebooks use intel gpus - they are pretty solid. LOD has to be better than alternatives by a significant margin in order to attract users.
  - tdicola 12y ago
    No WebGL enabled on Linux Chrome in my experience. Kind of annoying when cool visualizations get passed around and you can't see them.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    My biggest gripe with Chrome on Linux is you can't change the default behavior of clicking in the address bar. In Firefox I can make it so clicking once selects everything. In Chrome, it drops a cursor and I have to click two or three times to get it to select everything. I understand some people want that behavior, but I don't. The Chrome team's response is that this is the Linux default and Chrome is a native Linux application, so that's how it behaves and it can't be changed. No thanks.

by yoran 12y ago

zanny 12y ago

They are not, unless there are Ubuntu computers available in stores. I actually know there are some German laws requiring computers be made available with varying or no OS, so it is much more likely than it is stateside to find an Ubuntu machine in store.

macco 12y ago
Unfortunately this is not the case. I only new 2 Online-Stores in Germany that sell Ubuntu maschines - one is my own: http://rockiger.com/ http://rockiger.com/ On the other hand, System76 computers are not available in Germany. Best bet is probably is Sputnik from Dell, although their Ubuntu configuration is not that good.
- velodrome 12y ago
  The initial Dell sputnik was lacking (notably small screen resolution, price, etc.). The second rev is decent: 4th Generation Intel® Core™ i5-4210U processor (3M Cache, up to 2.7 GHz) UBUNTU Linux 12.04 LTS (64-bit) 13.3 inch LED Backlit Touch Display with Truelife and FHD resolution (1920 x 1080) 8GB1 DDR3L at 1600MHz 128GB Solid State Drive Intel® HD Graphics 4400 3.02 lbs Dell Price $1199.99
  - Already__Taken 12y ago
    I don't understand why you'd get this and not the cheaper exact model with windows.
    - zanny 12y ago
      Because there are few opportunities to buy a notebook without giving Microsoft a lot of money.
      - jdong 12y ago
        Except you aren't giving Microsoft money while buying a Windows laptop. Nor can I see what you'd benefit from spending extra money to not give Microsoft money.
        zanny 12y ago
        > Nor can I see what you'd benefit Not giving Microsoft money means you are not funding the exact reason why Linux on the desktop is obscure in the first place. If MS did not have such comprehensive control of the consumer computer space, they would not have pervasive "deals" with every vendor to lock them in to shipping Windows across the board. Because if you, as a hardware manufacturer, install Ubuntu and make sure all the drivers work, out of the box it is no more buggy than Windows is at this point - probably less, and much more usable than Windows 8 for the average joe. But Microsoft has a firm grasp across the entire industry on all the vendors, and their ubiquity for 20 years has given them mindshare you cannot easily unravel. And giving them more money is not helping that.
    - velodrome 12y ago
      Yea, I would too. You can't customize the model (ram, SSD, etc).
- kuschku 12y ago
  Notebooksbilliger.de sells all the laptops in their student lineup without OS – I bought my laptop there to save the license cost. Sometimes you can also find occasionally a laptop in a store with FreeDOS, but I've never seen one being sold with Ubuntu.

jonalmeida 12y ago

I believe it's been well documented by many writers that Linux on desktop (LOD) won't be a thing in the foreseeable future. If you think about it, Android's problems with open source allowing manufacturers to have their own flavours of Android, is one of the reasons why the average user might think TouchWiz (or other skins) is Android and that's why it sucks. Note that this is just _one_ reason I believe LOD won't be a thing, there surely are more.

PyErr_SetString 12y ago
"If you think about it, Android's problems with open source allowing manufacturers to have their own flavours of Android..." One is not really dependent on the other. You could use open source and not allow modifications or you could use closed source software and allow endless customization. I also don't consider it an "android problem" that manufacturers do this. Most of the good stuff ends up in standard android after a while, which wouldn't have happened if no one was allowed to make the changes in the first place.
- jonalmeida 12y ago
  > One is not really dependent on the other. You could use open source and not allow modifications or you could use closed source software and allow endless customization. Good point. > Most of the good stuff ends up in standard android after a while, which wouldn't have happened if no one was allowed to make the changes in the first place. This was mainly due to Google pushing more stuff through Play Services. It would be nice if there was some more control/constraints on Linux flavours.

velodrome 12y ago

Honestly, it is going to take a while. The display drivers needs a lot of work (intel seems solid). Also, desktop itself needs to be super stable. Also, the software (from companies) is treated like a second-class citizen. Chrome is horrible on linux, --disable-gpu --audio-buffer-size what user is going to bother with that? I have to do all these tweaks and workarounds to get things to work. Regular users will not have the patience do this. The year of LOD will only happen when everything is stable and works. Imagine if CentOS, Debian, or Ubuntu on a server were this flaky? Would you use it? This is why people jump ship to Mac.

eru 12y ago
> Chrome is horrible on linux, --disable-gpu --audio-buffer-size what user is going to bother with that? Really? Chrome is a first class citizen on ChromeOS, so I'd expected other linuxes to be well served, too.
- velodrome 12y ago
  Yep. I think it has to do with AMD drivers but I am not sure (I have seen some Nvidia users complain too). It started around Chrome 33. By the way, I don't think ChromeOS is a good example. Can you use Firefox on ChromeOS? I consider ChromeOS like purpose-specific, dedicated hardware (like a router). It is a start though. By the way, Chromebooks use intel gpus - they are pretty solid. LOD has to be better than alternatives by a significant margin in order to attract users.
- tdicola 12y ago
  No WebGL enabled on Linux Chrome in my experience. Kind of annoying when cool visualizations get passed around and you can't see them.
- freehunter 12y ago
  My biggest gripe with Chrome on Linux is you can't change the default behavior of clicking in the address bar. In Firefox I can make it so clicking once selects everything. In Chrome, it drops a cursor and I have to click two or three times to get it to select everything. I understand some people want that behavior, but I don't. The Chrome team's response is that this is the Linux default and Chrome is a native Linux application, so that's how it behaves and it can't be changed. No thanks.