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He also wants to restructure Japanese agriculture, which is dominated by aging family farmers working tiny plots of land, a system that results in high food cos

by gnu8 12y ago

He also wants to restructure Japanese agriculture, which is dominated by aging family farmers working tiny plots of land, a system that results in high food costs. If big companies move into farming, Mr. Abe reckons, prices will fall. What is the plan to deal with the obvious consequence of removing this built-in subsidy on a huge number of people who have no other skill than farming? It would need to be replaced with something explicit. I don't argue against technological progress simply because it would make old jobs obsolete. But in this situation the consequences are fairly predictable, so why not make a plan for it instead of throwing the elderly family farmers of Japan to the wolves of the free market?

zhemao 12y ago
The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. I don't think these indoor farms are meant to compete with the existing farms (which mostly grow rice, one of few agricultural products which Japan is a net exporter of), but rather with imports.
- sosborn 12y ago
  >The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. You'll find that the highest priced versions of a food are those produced domestically, beef being a prime example.
- jmadsen 12y ago
  As someone who pays the weekly food bill, I think that is simply not true (about the costs). A great deal of the vegetables are also grown on small farms here. I think the quality and taste are much better for it, but prices are very high for even simple things.
  - sdrothrock 12y ago
    When I moved from rural Gunma to Tokyo, I was surprised at how much the vegetable prices went up and the quality went down. I suppose that's why.
- eru 12y ago
  The price is so high, because they don't import enough food. They have ridiculous tariffs.
byw 12y ago
Seems like Japan would be a prime candidate for universal basic income. Above average unemployment + high social welfare + high productivity/automation.
- dicemoose 12y ago
  I certainly would vote for politicians that would support universal basic income in Japan. A calculation done in the past few years found that ¥50,000 a month (about $500 US) could be paid out to each citizen without raising any extra revenue. Something closer to ¥170,000 a month would probably be more reasonable, if we could figure it out.
  - ddeck 12y ago
    Who did the calculation? I'd be keen to see the breakdown. My rough estimates put the cost of JPY50k/month to the adult population at somewhere around USD 700 billion/year and JPY170k/month at USD2,400 billion, or around 47% of Japan's GDP. Total social security spending is currently in the order of USD300 billion. Given that the Japan Government currently spends (excluding interest costs) around USD230 billion more than it earns in revenue each year, such a proposal would be extremely difficult to implement. For reference, in 2014 the Japan Government has: - Outstanding debt of ~USD12,100 billion - Annual revenue of ~USD691 billion - Annual spending of ~USD921 billion.
    - dicemoose 12y ago
      The 50k JPY figure comes from the budget for social welfare in Japan. Here is an article where it is broken down for 2009: http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 But, let me try it with figures from 2011.[1] 107,495 billion JPY for total social welfare 32,463 billion JPY for national health insurance The author deducted the amount spent for national health insurance from total social welfare. That leaves: 75, 032 billion JPY It should only be for the adult population, but I can't find numbers for just adults, so I divided by 120million. 625,266 JPY annually or 52105.5 JPY a month. IIRC social insurance is not included in the general budget. As far as the 170k JPY calculation, that was just my imagining what would be a reasonable basic income. I have never crunched the numbers on it. But, it comes out to 2.04 million yen a year. Since the GDP per capita in Japan is 3.76 million JPY, this would be quite the redistribution of wealth. [1] http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf
jpatokal 12y ago
Japan has a rapidly shrinking population, its farmers are overwhelmingly elderly and dying off. A fair amount of automation is needed simply to maintain current production levels, which are already insufficient to cover local consumption, so Japan imports a lot of food from China. Also, Japanese food prices are kept artifically high by a cozy subsidy racket run by semi-governmental coop union JA ($5 for a kilo of rice, anyone?) but that's another story.

by gnu8 12y ago

zhemao 12y ago

The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. I don't think these indoor farms are meant to compete with the existing farms (which mostly grow rice, one of few agricultural products which Japan is a net exporter of), but rather with imports.

sosborn 12y ago
>The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. You'll find that the highest priced versions of a food are those produced domestically, beef being a prime example.
jmadsen 12y ago
As someone who pays the weekly food bill, I think that is simply not true (about the costs). A great deal of the vegetables are also grown on small farms here. I think the quality and taste are much better for it, but prices are very high for even simple things.
- sdrothrock 12y ago
  When I moved from rural Gunma to Tokyo, I was surprised at how much the vegetable prices went up and the quality went down. I suppose that's why.
eru 12y ago
The price is so high, because they don't import enough food. They have ridiculous tariffs.

byw 12y ago

Seems like Japan would be a prime candidate for universal basic income. Above average unemployment + high social welfare + high productivity/automation.

dicemoose 12y ago
I certainly would vote for politicians that would support universal basic income in Japan. A calculation done in the past few years found that ¥50,000 a month (about $500 US) could be paid out to each citizen without raising any extra revenue. Something closer to ¥170,000 a month would probably be more reasonable, if we could figure it out.
- ddeck 12y ago
  Who did the calculation? I'd be keen to see the breakdown. My rough estimates put the cost of JPY50k/month to the adult population at somewhere around USD 700 billion/year and JPY170k/month at USD2,400 billion, or around 47% of Japan's GDP. Total social security spending is currently in the order of USD300 billion. Given that the Japan Government currently spends (excluding interest costs) around USD230 billion more than it earns in revenue each year, such a proposal would be extremely difficult to implement. For reference, in 2014 the Japan Government has: - Outstanding debt of ~USD12,100 billion - Annual revenue of ~USD691 billion - Annual spending of ~USD921 billion.
  - dicemoose 12y ago
    The 50k JPY figure comes from the budget for social welfare in Japan. Here is an article where it is broken down for 2009: http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 http://diamond.jp/articles/-/16672 But, let me try it with figures from 2011.[1] 107,495 billion JPY for total social welfare 32,463 billion JPY for national health insurance The author deducted the amount spent for national health insurance from total social welfare. That leaves: 75, 032 billion JPY It should only be for the adult population, but I can't find numbers for just adults, so I divided by 120million. 625,266 JPY annually or 52105.5 JPY a month. IIRC social insurance is not included in the general budget. As far as the 170k JPY calculation, that was just my imagining what would be a reasonable basic income. I have never crunched the numbers on it. But, it comes out to 2.04 million yen a year. Since the GDP per capita in Japan is 3.76 million JPY, this would be quite the redistribution of wealth. [1] http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf http://www.ipss.go.jp/ss-cost/j/fsss-h23/h23.pdf

jpatokal 12y ago

Japan has a rapidly shrinking population, its farmers are overwhelmingly elderly and dying off. A fair amount of automation is needed simply to maintain current production levels, which are already insufficient to cover local consumption, so Japan imports a lot of food from China. Also, Japanese food prices are kept artifically high by a cozy subsidy racket run by semi-governmental coop union JA ($5 for a kilo of rice, anyone?) but that's another story.