6 ms·

In Japan, Idled Electronics Factories Find New Life in Farming

99 points by T-A 12y ago

cyorir 12y ago
I found this a bit amusing because I do not recall ever eating food made using lettuce while in Japan, except for maybe a single salad. It's simply not a large staple crop there. That is probably why Fujitsu chose it, as opposed to a crop like rice or a type of bean. It will be interesting to see if this type of production picks up, although I do not see why it would.
- deciplex 12y ago
  Lettuce is not exactly a staple in Japan, but it's common enough that you'd have to go out of your way to avoid it. It's in sandwiches like you'd expect, it's in garnish, it's in salad (though the Japanese seem to prefer cabbage-based salad), and you can buy it at any supermarket.
beamatronic 12y ago
Should this article make a bigger deal about the fact that they are growing food in clean rooms 60 miles from the world's worst nuclear disaster, whose cleanup is still ongoing?
- Einstalbert 12y ago
  That seemed odd to me until I compared it with the passage before it; that Fukushima grows much of the agriculture in Japan seems startling enough, but then I don't claim to know much about radioactive fallout and growing crops within x, y, z miles. I probably wouldn't eat Chernobyl beets.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    Apparently background radiation in Chernybyl is half what it is in Denver. https://sites.google.com/site/radioactivityinbasel/radioactivity-in-other-cities https://sites.google.com/site/radioactivityinbasel/radioacti...
    - lotharbot 12y ago
      The geology building at Colorado School of Mines (a few miles west of Denver) used to have a display case in the main hallway with a Geiger counter running 24/7, and posters explaining what different spikes meant (ie, uranium decay made the needle move to such-and-such number). Sometimes I'd stand in the hallway between classes and watch. It was never more than about 15 seconds between decay events.
- cyorir 12y ago
  I don't think so. The current cleanup at Fukushima relates mostly to the flow of contaminated ground water directly in the vicinity of the plant, as well as the problem of finding out where to send waste currently stored on site. Airborne radiation is currently not so much of a problem. Even when airborne radiation was a problem, wind patterns tend to carry the contaminated air east, across the Pacific, rather than inland. So ongoing radiation would not be expected to cause major concerns with Fujitsu's relatively removed work. Residual radiation and contamination of the soil used could pose problems, but I do not think they will. Given how low they have gotten the potassium levels, I expect that control over the growing environment and soil will is quite high.
- nandemo 12y ago
  > Should this article make a bigger deal... Probably no. 60 miles is about 100km. The radius of the evacuation area is 30km.
- jmadsen 12y ago
  Probably not - because these are grown in "in a sterile, dust-free clean room that once built the brains of high-tech gadgets" Probably cleaner than "normal" produce, with all the pollution it deals with.
gnu8 12y ago
He also wants to restructure Japanese agriculture, which is dominated by aging family farmers working tiny plots of land, a system that results in high food costs. If big companies move into farming, Mr. Abe reckons, prices will fall. What is the plan to deal with the obvious consequence of removing this built-in subsidy on a huge number of people who have no other skill than farming? It would need to be replaced with something explicit. I don't argue against technological progress simply because it would make old jobs obsolete. But in this situation the consequences are fairly predictable, so why not make a plan for it instead of throwing the elderly family farmers of Japan to the wolves of the free market?
- zhemao 12y ago
  The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. I don't think these indoor farms are meant to compete with the existing farms (which mostly grow rice, one of few agricultural products which Japan is a net exporter of), but rather with imports.
  - sosborn 12y ago
    >The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. You'll find that the highest priced versions of a food are those produced domestically, beef being a prime example.
  - jmadsen 12y ago
    As someone who pays the weekly food bill, I think that is simply not true (about the costs). A great deal of the vegetables are also grown on small farms here. I think the quality and taste are much better for it, but prices are very high for even simple things.
    - sdrothrock 12y ago
      When I moved from rural Gunma to Tokyo, I was surprised at how much the vegetable prices went up and the quality went down. I suppose that's why.
  - 12y ago
andrewfong 12y ago
Some additional considerations here: (1) climate change is probably not going to be good for the global agriculture market and (2) the nearest country with lots of farmable land is China, a country Japan has not historically gotten along with.
- yichi 12y ago
  China and Japan actually only hated each other in the last 100 years (maybe 50). If you look at the period of time of last 2000 years China and Japan were on much more reasonable terms.
  - dicemoose 12y ago
    Zhou Enlai said,“two thousand years of friendship and five decades of misfortune,” about the relationship between China and Japan.
aaron695 12y ago
This only makes sense because it is a speciality gourmet product. It has little to do with food security.
ChuckMcM 12y ago
Interesting the WSJ article doesn't mention the low potassium which was the focus of the previous press release (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855) There are some pretty awesome automated farming things going on[1] which are going to be more impactful than this I suspect seems like not all hydroponics in California are about pot grow systems :-) [1] http://www.viridisaquaponics.com/#about http://www.viridisaquaponics.com/#about Edit: I take it back, the WSJ does mention the Low-K angle, I just missed it on my first reading.
rl3 12y ago
Semiconductor manufacturing involves the use of highly toxic chemicals, both in the manufacturing process itself and in ancillary uses, such as agents that help keep the clean rooms clean. I'm sure these converted clean rooms are excellent at negating microbial and particulate contamination, though I have to wonder how much concern has been given to negating chemical contamination, given the purpose these facilities previously served.
MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855
hownottowrite 12y ago
Patent abstract for the method used: http://www19.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/PA1/cgi-bin/PA1DETAIL http://www19.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/PA1/cgi-bin/PA1DETAIL

99 points by T-A 12y ago

I found this a bit amusing because I do not recall ever eating food made using lettuce while in Japan, except for maybe a single salad. It's simply not a large staple crop there. That is probably why Fujitsu chose it, as opposed to a crop like rice or a type of bean. It will be interesting to see if this type of production picks up, although I do not see why it would.

deciplex 12y ago
Lettuce is not exactly a staple in Japan, but it's common enough that you'd have to go out of your way to avoid it. It's in sandwiches like you'd expect, it's in garnish, it's in salad (though the Japanese seem to prefer cabbage-based salad), and you can buy it at any supermarket.

beamatronic 12y ago

Should this article make a bigger deal about the fact that they are growing food in clean rooms 60 miles from the world's worst nuclear disaster, whose cleanup is still ongoing?

Einstalbert 12y ago
That seemed odd to me until I compared it with the passage before it; that Fukushima grows much of the agriculture in Japan seems startling enough, but then I don't claim to know much about radioactive fallout and growing crops within x, y, z miles. I probably wouldn't eat Chernobyl beets.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Apparently background radiation in Chernybyl is half what it is in Denver. https://sites.google.com/site/radioactivityinbasel/radioactivity-in-other-cities https://sites.google.com/site/radioactivityinbasel/radioacti...
  - lotharbot 12y ago
    The geology building at Colorado School of Mines (a few miles west of Denver) used to have a display case in the main hallway with a Geiger counter running 24/7, and posters explaining what different spikes meant (ie, uranium decay made the needle move to such-and-such number). Sometimes I'd stand in the hallway between classes and watch. It was never more than about 15 seconds between decay events.
cyorir 12y ago
I don't think so. The current cleanup at Fukushima relates mostly to the flow of contaminated ground water directly in the vicinity of the plant, as well as the problem of finding out where to send waste currently stored on site. Airborne radiation is currently not so much of a problem. Even when airborne radiation was a problem, wind patterns tend to carry the contaminated air east, across the Pacific, rather than inland. So ongoing radiation would not be expected to cause major concerns with Fujitsu's relatively removed work. Residual radiation and contamination of the soil used could pose problems, but I do not think they will. Given how low they have gotten the potassium levels, I expect that control over the growing environment and soil will is quite high.
nandemo 12y ago
> Should this article make a bigger deal... Probably no. 60 miles is about 100km. The radius of the evacuation area is 30km.
jmadsen 12y ago
Probably not - because these are grown in "in a sterile, dust-free clean room that once built the brains of high-tech gadgets" Probably cleaner than "normal" produce, with all the pollution it deals with.

gnu8 12y ago

He also wants to restructure Japanese agriculture, which is dominated by aging family farmers working tiny plots of land, a system that results in high food costs. If big companies move into farming, Mr. Abe reckons, prices will fall. What is the plan to deal with the obvious consequence of removing this built-in subsidy on a huge number of people who have no other skill than farming? It would need to be replaced with something explicit. I don't argue against technological progress simply because it would make old jobs obsolete. But in this situation the consequences are fairly predictable, so why not make a plan for it instead of throwing the elderly family farmers of Japan to the wolves of the free market?

zhemao 12y ago
The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. I don't think these indoor farms are meant to compete with the existing farms (which mostly grow rice, one of few agricultural products which Japan is a net exporter of), but rather with imports.
- sosborn 12y ago
  >The high food costs are because Japan imports most of its food. You'll find that the highest priced versions of a food are those produced domestically, beef being a prime example.
- jmadsen 12y ago
  As someone who pays the weekly food bill, I think that is simply not true (about the costs). A great deal of the vegetables are also grown on small farms here. I think the quality and taste are much better for it, but prices are very high for even simple things.
  - sdrothrock 12y ago
    When I moved from rural Gunma to Tokyo, I was surprised at how much the vegetable prices went up and the quality went down. I suppose that's why.
- 12y ago

andrewfong 12y ago

Some additional considerations here: (1) climate change is probably not going to be good for the global agriculture market and (2) the nearest country with lots of farmable land is China, a country Japan has not historically gotten along with.

yichi 12y ago
China and Japan actually only hated each other in the last 100 years (maybe 50). If you look at the period of time of last 2000 years China and Japan were on much more reasonable terms.
- dicemoose 12y ago
  Zhou Enlai said,“two thousand years of friendship and five decades of misfortune,” about the relationship between China and Japan.

aaron695 12y ago

This only makes sense because it is a speciality gourmet product. It has little to do with food security.

ChuckMcM 12y ago

Interesting the WSJ article doesn't mention the low potassium which was the focus of the previous press release (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855) There are some pretty awesome automated farming things going on[1] which are going to be more impactful than this I suspect seems like not all hydroponics in California are about pot grow systems :-) [1] http://www.viridisaquaponics.com/#about http://www.viridisaquaponics.com/#about Edit: I take it back, the WSJ does mention the Low-K angle, I just missed it on my first reading.

rl3 12y ago

Semiconductor manufacturing involves the use of highly toxic chemicals, both in the manufacturing process itself and in ancillary uses, such as agents that help keep the clean rooms clean. I'm sure these converted clean rooms are excellent at negating microbial and particulate contamination, though I have to wonder how much concern has been given to negating chemical contamination, given the purpose these facilities previously served.

MrBuddyCasino 12y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803855

hownottowrite 12y ago

Patent abstract for the method used: http://www19.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/PA1/cgi-bin/PA1DETAIL http://www19.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/PA1/cgi-bin/PA1DETAIL