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This is a throwaway account. I feel we are being invaded. The culture we used to have didn't cared about isms or whatever you want to call them. It developed th

This is a throwaway account. I feel we are being invaded. The culture we used to have didn't cared about isms or whatever you want to call them. It developed through text were it hardly matter who was on the other side of the connection, only skills and thoughts mattered. Those were the good old days, when we were free. Now we are being invaded. We, like every other culture in the world, are ask to not use certain language and not have certain thoughts. If we do not comply, we are heretics. Only they don't use that term, they rather use some ism. The wheel of history is repeating. The control freaks still want to control, they just changed one set of sins for another.

resu_nimda 12y ago
The culture we used to have didn't cared about isms or whatever you want to call them. This reads like a 4chan teenager's manifesto. Alright, a bunch of nerds in their basements who are just so edgy and can say whatever they want. Badass! Well, you might be pleased to know that you're totally free to carry on the misanthropy club in plenty of areas of the internet. But here on Hacker News, and apparently especially at Hacker School, a lot of people that are actually coming from within the culture would like to see some change. When I read this article, I too was annoyed. I felt it was over the top, way too politically correct. But then I read the comments here, and it's basically all these people coming out of the woodwork and vaulting right over the spirit of understanding in their haste to defend their right to be acerbic assholes. They're not trying to silence you, they're just trying to implement guidelines that foster inclusion and collaboration. Is that really so awful?
- invadedby 12y ago
  This reads like a 4chan teenager's manifesto. a bunch of nerds in their basements How can you talk that way and the next moment talk about fostering inclusion?
  - rev_bird 12y ago
    The guy calling "let's strive for inclusive language" an invasion by thought police probably doesn't get to drive the hypocrisy bus.
  - resu_nimda 12y ago
    You do have a point - I did succumb to the temptation to hyperbolize, which made my argument weaker. But the point still stands.
- wmj 12y ago
  What do you have against teenagers? That whole spiel is most unsubtly ageist.
dfxm12 12y ago
> I feel we are being invaded. by whom? >The culture we used to have didn't cared about isms or whatever you want to call them. When? Depending how far back you go, The hacker culture attracted a very specific type of person. It was self-selective, so they themselves had similar cultural norms. Today is very different. Hackers are more diverse, thus these issues come to light. This brings us back to: > Now we are being invaded. There are going to be growing pains, but in the end, diversity is a good thing, right? Or is this all an issue about degree?
- invadedby 12y ago
  >by whom? Not sure, people who care more about a narrative of justice than technical hacks. >When? Depending how far back you go, The hacker culture attracted a very specific type of person. It was self-selective, so they themselves had similar cultural norms. I guess that the startup scene made us popular, which tends to attract the sort of people who like guidelines, rules and control. > There are going to be growing pains, but in the end, diversity is a good thing, right? I just do not see why we need rules. Specially rules we are not expected to bend.
- wmj 12y ago
  Enforced diversity that lowers average competence is a very bad thing, both for the industry and for human civilization as a whole.
rev_bird 12y ago
The "no debate" thing seems really odd and control-freakish on their part, I'll give you that. But if you look at people trying to make tech a more inclusive community and call it an "invasion," you're reflecting the exact view that made movements like this pop up. If "the good old days" were really that good, why have women been almost intentionally excluded from IT until relatively recently? Do you mean "good" for people in general, or "good" for you? When you say "we are being invaded," who is "we"? White men? People who are already "in"? More importantly, who is doing the invading? If women say "hey, these are small, tacitly accepted things in tech culture that make people uncomfortable," do you seriously think that statement is persecuting you? They're not trying to control your thoughts, they're trying to get you to be less of an asshole.
- wmj 12y ago
  Women have never been excluded from IT. They're either not capable or find it uninteresting, often both at the same time.
- invadedby 12y ago
  >why have women been almost intentionally excluded from IT until relatively recently? I have never excluded women. Also IT, tech, hackers are not interchangeable terms. >Do you mean "good" for people in general, or "good" for you? I meant good for hackers. People with a certain world view, goals and sense of humor. >When you say "we are being invaded," who is "we"? Again, hackers. We never cared for race nor sexuality. >who is doing the invading? Control freaks. >They're not trying to control your thoughts, they're trying to get you to be less of an asshole. If anything, this rules make it easier to be an asshole.
  - rev_bird 12y ago
    You say you've never excluded women, but you are aggressively dismissing an attempt -- it seems, mostly from women -- at improving what they perceive as sexist undertones in the workplace. If someone says "hey, we should work on addressing this sexism," and the response is, "be quiet, there isn't any sexism, you just hate fun," that seems pretty stinking sexist, doesn't it? Dismissing someone's concerns by saying they aren't real doesn't address the concerns, it just sweeps them under the rug because they aren't perceived as being important enough to give a shit about. If some group has evolved office slang that includes saying "Quit being a ginger" to people who make dumb mistakes, and then that group hires some redheaded dude, wouldn't it be within his rights to say "hey guys, it's kind of weird to use 'ginger' as a euphemism for 'dumbass'"? Yeah, maybe he's "invading" and stepping on the group's ability to insult people at the expense of other groups, but it doesn't mean he's wrong.

resu_nimda 12y ago

The culture we used to have didn't cared about isms or whatever you want to call them. This reads like a 4chan teenager's manifesto. Alright, a bunch of nerds in their basements who are just so edgy and can say whatever they want. Badass! Well, you might be pleased to know that you're totally free to carry on the misanthropy club in plenty of areas of the internet. But here on Hacker News, and apparently especially at Hacker School, a lot of people that are actually coming from within the culture would like to see some change. When I read this article, I too was annoyed. I felt it was over the top, way too politically correct. But then I read the comments here, and it's basically all these people coming out of the woodwork and vaulting right over the spirit of understanding in their haste to defend their right to be acerbic assholes. They're not trying to silence you, they're just trying to implement guidelines that foster inclusion and collaboration. Is that really so awful?

invadedby 12y ago
This reads like a 4chan teenager's manifesto. a bunch of nerds in their basements How can you talk that way and the next moment talk about fostering inclusion?
- rev_bird 12y ago
  The guy calling "let's strive for inclusive language" an invasion by thought police probably doesn't get to drive the hypocrisy bus.
- resu_nimda 12y ago
  You do have a point - I did succumb to the temptation to hyperbolize, which made my argument weaker. But the point still stands.
wmj 12y ago
What do you have against teenagers? That whole spiel is most unsubtly ageist.

dfxm12 12y ago

> I feel we are being invaded. by whom? >The culture we used to have didn't cared about isms or whatever you want to call them. When? Depending how far back you go, The hacker culture attracted a very specific type of person. It was self-selective, so they themselves had similar cultural norms. Today is very different. Hackers are more diverse, thus these issues come to light. This brings us back to: > Now we are being invaded. There are going to be growing pains, but in the end, diversity is a good thing, right? Or is this all an issue about degree?

invadedby 12y ago
>by whom? Not sure, people who care more about a narrative of justice than technical hacks. >When? Depending how far back you go, The hacker culture attracted a very specific type of person. It was self-selective, so they themselves had similar cultural norms. I guess that the startup scene made us popular, which tends to attract the sort of people who like guidelines, rules and control. > There are going to be growing pains, but in the end, diversity is a good thing, right? I just do not see why we need rules. Specially rules we are not expected to bend.
wmj 12y ago
Enforced diversity that lowers average competence is a very bad thing, both for the industry and for human civilization as a whole.

rev_bird 12y ago

The "no debate" thing seems really odd and control-freakish on their part, I'll give you that. But if you look at people trying to make tech a more inclusive community and call it an "invasion," you're reflecting the exact view that made movements like this pop up. If "the good old days" were really that good, why have women been almost intentionally excluded from IT until relatively recently? Do you mean "good" for people in general, or "good" for you? When you say "we are being invaded," who is "we"? White men? People who are already "in"? More importantly, who is doing the invading? If women say "hey, these are small, tacitly accepted things in tech culture that make people uncomfortable," do you seriously think that statement is persecuting you? They're not trying to control your thoughts, they're trying to get you to be less of an asshole.

wmj 12y ago
Women have never been excluded from IT. They're either not capable or find it uninteresting, often both at the same time.
invadedby 12y ago
>why have women been almost intentionally excluded from IT until relatively recently? I have never excluded women. Also IT, tech, hackers are not interchangeable terms. >Do you mean "good" for people in general, or "good" for you? I meant good for hackers. People with a certain world view, goals and sense of humor. >When you say "we are being invaded," who is "we"? Again, hackers. We never cared for race nor sexuality. >who is doing the invading? Control freaks. >They're not trying to control your thoughts, they're trying to get you to be less of an asshole. If anything, this rules make it easier to be an asshole.
- rev_bird 12y ago
  You say you've never excluded women, but you are aggressively dismissing an attempt -- it seems, mostly from women -- at improving what they perceive as sexist undertones in the workplace. If someone says "hey, we should work on addressing this sexism," and the response is, "be quiet, there isn't any sexism, you just hate fun," that seems pretty stinking sexist, doesn't it? Dismissing someone's concerns by saying they aren't real doesn't address the concerns, it just sweeps them under the rug because they aren't perceived as being important enough to give a shit about. If some group has evolved office slang that includes saying "Quit being a ginger" to people who make dumb mistakes, and then that group hires some redheaded dude, wouldn't it be within his rights to say "hey guys, it's kind of weird to use 'ginger' as a euphemism for 'dumbass'"? Yeah, maybe he's "invading" and stepping on the group's ability to insult people at the expense of other groups, but it doesn't mean he's wrong.