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Yes, people are different, and you're right that when something doesn't bother me doesn't mean that it shouldn't bother anyone else. But we need to draw a line

Yes, people are different, and you're right that when something doesn't bother me doesn't mean that it shouldn't bother anyone else. But we need to draw a line where a "this bothers me" said by someone is actually meaningful and not oversensitivity. I think we can agree on that one, because a world where small and harmless statements that are in no way degrading can be deemed "offensive" by a very small group of people and judged because of that, would be a chaos. Some reasonable threshold must be there. Reasonable, of course. We shouldn't also allow really offensive and malicious statements and viewpoints and actions to slip by. I cannot stress this enough. I can testify that people who are seen as geeks and/or nerds are very heavily stereotyped. I know I've been shaken off by a girl on one occasion when I mentioned my field of study, no joke. It's an extreme example, but the pendulum can swing both ways. But I didn't feel like the "female culture" was unwelcoming to programmers :) I just thought about how I met an isolated case of an idiot, and of course, that's how it is. I still haven't heard someone say or allude that women, or a woman, is intrinsically less capable with tech-related crafts. I believe, though, that there are people who think that way. But I at least hope they're isolated cases, and I believe that they will be met with scorn from others just as much as they would from me, and that their behavior won't be tolerated.

watwut 12y ago
"I still haven't heard someone say or allude that women, or a woman, is intrinsically less capable with tech-related crafts. " I got told that twice if I recall right. Once while in highschool and once by colleague. I also had a professor ask me why did I not studied field supposedly easier for women (it was before exam, he had no idea what I know and what I do not know). Then there were was assumption that I will happily do all the repetitive tasks and do not care about doing technically interesting work. I did not seen them doing such assumption for men. Those were direct experiences. Most people who have such opinions shut up about it, it is just that you have to prove yourself harder to get the same as colleague/school mate.
- thegeomaster 12y ago
  I feel very uneasy when I hear stories like these. I just can't get into the heads of those people. It's as if I live in a different reality, I just cannot comprehend that. It's such a great pity if a woman gets discouraged from pursuing her goal because of those asswads. I don't want to leave an impression of turning a blind eye to the problem. I did say that I believe there are people who think like that, but I have a lowly opinion of them.
  - detcader 12y ago
    Is it so hard to agree with the idea that you do in fact live in a different reality? You and I are naturally blind to what women experience. Doing deductive reasoning is impossible -- the best tool in developing a holistic understanding of sex-based systems of inequality is: listening to what women have to say. And doing inducive reasoning based on that data that you didn't have before. This is the case generally, not just in software engineering.

watwut 12y ago

"I still haven't heard someone say or allude that women, or a woman, is intrinsically less capable with tech-related crafts. " I got told that twice if I recall right. Once while in highschool and once by colleague. I also had a professor ask me why did I not studied field supposedly easier for women (it was before exam, he had no idea what I know and what I do not know). Then there were was assumption that I will happily do all the repetitive tasks and do not care about doing technically interesting work. I did not seen them doing such assumption for men. Those were direct experiences. Most people who have such opinions shut up about it, it is just that you have to prove yourself harder to get the same as colleague/school mate.

thegeomaster 12y ago
I feel very uneasy when I hear stories like these. I just can't get into the heads of those people. It's as if I live in a different reality, I just cannot comprehend that. It's such a great pity if a woman gets discouraged from pursuing her goal because of those asswads. I don't want to leave an impression of turning a blind eye to the problem. I did say that I believe there are people who think like that, but I have a lowly opinion of them.
- detcader 12y ago
  Is it so hard to agree with the idea that you do in fact live in a different reality? You and I are naturally blind to what women experience. Doing deductive reasoning is impossible -- the best tool in developing a holistic understanding of sex-based systems of inequality is: listening to what women have to say. And doing inducive reasoning based on that data that you didn't have before. This is the case generally, not just in software engineering.