4 ms·

See how easily the politicos make it about you against me, when we should be working together. Dude, if you are European, and you make good software, I'll use i

by kghose 12y ago

See how easily the politicos make it about you against me, when we should be working together. Dude, if you are European, and you make good software, I'll use it. In fact, I use a ton of software made by people who, by chance, were born in Europe. But the moment you start to rail against 'US companies' (I work in a US company) I begin to think, waitaminuite, that guy is against me - he wants to hurt me, maybe I shouldn't use his stuff either ...

yulaow 12y ago
I don't think it is about asking to "not use something". It is about asking to pay taxes where you gain money. To have a equal system any vendor should pay in a specific state the part of taxes related to what he sold in that specific state. It is really incredible that if I sell the 99.99% of my product out of Luxembourg I pay all taxes only in Luxembourg, for example. (edit obviously using the various holes in the EU law system)
danmaz74 12y ago
What is actually absurd is that those companies don't pay those taxes in the US either, because they can keep the money in fiscal havens for ages...
- mike_hearn 12y ago
  No. You read about money sitting in the Caribbean because the US tax system is broken and tries to tax money made anywhere in the world (this makes no sense, and no other country does this). BUT .... that doesn't mean they avoid the US taxes! For Google the money ends up sitting in Bermuda: not a place noted for its abundance of cheap colo space or computer scientists. Obviously it isn't going to stay there because there's nothing to spend it on. Instead the money sits offshore until something more useful is found. What US companies want to happen is that the US Govt puts in place a "tax holiday" in which they temporarily stop being idiots and use the same tax rules as the rest of the world, thus allowing those companies to move the money earned abroad back into the USA without it being taxed twice (once by the country where it was earned and once by Uncle Sam). This has happened before so they think maybe it'll happen again. Then they can spend it on building fancy offices and hiring splurges, all of which yields taxable income inside the USA. What actually tends to happen is that politicians, even the ones that acknowledge the sense of this, don't like being seen to give big companies a tax break. So they prevaricate and eventually the money gets spent abroad in places like Europe or Asia, where double taxation treaties work properly. At that point the money gets taxed via payroll taxes, employee income taxes, VAT etc. Own goal for America. Still ... the money doesn't sit there because they want to avoid US taxes. They generally want to avoid double taxation, and then spend the money saved inside the USA.
  - danmaz74 12y ago
    What double taxation? They are NOT taxed in Europe, that's the whole point!!
    - mike_hearn 12y ago
      They are indeed taxed in Europe! The rate paid is low (until the money moves back around) but tax is paid.
      - danmaz74 12y ago
        It's not a low rate. It's an accounting trick, which moves almost all the taxable profits to a fiscal haven, and this is possible exactly because there is NO double taxation.

by kghose 12y ago

yulaow 12y ago

I don't think it is about asking to "not use something". It is about asking to pay taxes where you gain money. To have a equal system any vendor should pay in a specific state the part of taxes related to what he sold in that specific state. It is really incredible that if I sell the 99.99% of my product out of Luxembourg I pay all taxes only in Luxembourg, for example. (edit obviously using the various holes in the EU law system)

danmaz74 12y ago

What is actually absurd is that those companies don't pay those taxes in the US either, because they can keep the money in fiscal havens for ages...

mike_hearn 12y ago
No. You read about money sitting in the Caribbean because the US tax system is broken and tries to tax money made anywhere in the world (this makes no sense, and no other country does this). BUT .... that doesn't mean they avoid the US taxes! For Google the money ends up sitting in Bermuda: not a place noted for its abundance of cheap colo space or computer scientists. Obviously it isn't going to stay there because there's nothing to spend it on. Instead the money sits offshore until something more useful is found. What US companies want to happen is that the US Govt puts in place a "tax holiday" in which they temporarily stop being idiots and use the same tax rules as the rest of the world, thus allowing those companies to move the money earned abroad back into the USA without it being taxed twice (once by the country where it was earned and once by Uncle Sam). This has happened before so they think maybe it'll happen again. Then they can spend it on building fancy offices and hiring splurges, all of which yields taxable income inside the USA. What actually tends to happen is that politicians, even the ones that acknowledge the sense of this, don't like being seen to give big companies a tax break. So they prevaricate and eventually the money gets spent abroad in places like Europe or Asia, where double taxation treaties work properly. At that point the money gets taxed via payroll taxes, employee income taxes, VAT etc. Own goal for America. Still ... the money doesn't sit there because they want to avoid US taxes. They generally want to avoid double taxation, and then spend the money saved inside the USA.
- danmaz74 12y ago
  What double taxation? They are NOT taxed in Europe, that's the whole point!!
  - mike_hearn 12y ago
    They are indeed taxed in Europe! The rate paid is low (until the money moves back around) but tax is paid.
    - danmaz74 12y ago
      It's not a low rate. It's an accounting trick, which moves almost all the taxable profits to a fiscal haven, and this is possible exactly because there is NO double taxation.