11 ms·

Are there any reasons to believe that we can generalise the behaviour of birds to humans? The article claims that we can, but I don't see why, especially given

by btn 17y ago

Are there any reasons to believe that we can generalise the behaviour of birds to humans? The article claims that we can, but I don't see why, especially given that "they're not as complex as humans".

btilly 17y ago
You're absolutely right. If you're going to generalize to humans, wouldn't you be better off trying to generalize from close relatives? Let's try that. In many mammals the selection is clearly for winners of dominance fights who collect harems. We clearly don't do that. Our closest relatives, chimpanzees, have a lot of selection for sperm production. We don't do that either. If we don't behave like these close relatives, then why would one assume that we behave like bower birds?
- roundsquare 17y ago
  I wouldn't be overly dismissive of this. It is (hopefully) the first of many experiments. They just wanted to start with something where they could easily determine intelligence and mating. Designing this for humans will be much more difficult... but I'd be interested to see if they can come up with a reasonable experimental design.
- barry-cotter 17y ago
  Eh, we clearly do have selection for sperm production. We have the second biggest balls in proportion to body size of any primate, which strongly suggests that only the (bonobo?) chimpanzees fuck around more than us.
  - btilly 17y ago
    Reference, please. I find that claim rather dubious considering that the common chimpanzee and bonobo are recognized as different species, which would make us at best third in the balls department. And we're not really comparable - the difference in size between us and them is about a factor of 3. (Chimps weigh in at 4 oz, we are 1.5 oz. The average male chimp is 100 pounds, we weigh somewhat more than that.) In fact I'd bet we lose to the anubis baboon. http://www.springerlink.com/content/ktvkuqv460200j70/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/ktvkuqv460200j70/ probably has the data for a definitive answer on that but it is behind a pay wall. If you're looking for amusing evolutionary sexual trivia, humans have far larger penises relative to body size than any other great ape.
    - barry-cotter 17y ago
      You're right, I was wrong, we fall in between the gorillas and chimpanzees, so we seem to be mildly polygynous but not dramatically so (consistent with our degree of sexual dimorphism) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070925090250.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070925090250.ht...

by btn 17y ago

btilly 17y ago

You're absolutely right. If you're going to generalize to humans, wouldn't you be better off trying to generalize from close relatives? Let's try that. In many mammals the selection is clearly for winners of dominance fights who collect harems. We clearly don't do that. Our closest relatives, chimpanzees, have a lot of selection for sperm production. We don't do that either. If we don't behave like these close relatives, then why would one assume that we behave like bower birds?

roundsquare 17y ago
I wouldn't be overly dismissive of this. It is (hopefully) the first of many experiments. They just wanted to start with something where they could easily determine intelligence and mating. Designing this for humans will be much more difficult... but I'd be interested to see if they can come up with a reasonable experimental design.
barry-cotter 17y ago
Eh, we clearly do have selection for sperm production. We have the second biggest balls in proportion to body size of any primate, which strongly suggests that only the (bonobo?) chimpanzees fuck around more than us.
- btilly 17y ago
  Reference, please. I find that claim rather dubious considering that the common chimpanzee and bonobo are recognized as different species, which would make us at best third in the balls department. And we're not really comparable - the difference in size between us and them is about a factor of 3. (Chimps weigh in at 4 oz, we are 1.5 oz. The average male chimp is 100 pounds, we weigh somewhat more than that.) In fact I'd bet we lose to the anubis baboon. http://www.springerlink.com/content/ktvkuqv460200j70/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/ktvkuqv460200j70/ probably has the data for a definitive answer on that but it is behind a pay wall. If you're looking for amusing evolutionary sexual trivia, humans have far larger penises relative to body size than any other great ape.
  - barry-cotter 17y ago
    You're right, I was wrong, we fall in between the gorillas and chimpanzees, so we seem to be mildly polygynous but not dramatically so (consistent with our degree of sexual dimorphism) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070925090250.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070925090250.ht...