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A better approach (IMHO) to loot in RPG games is to give NPCs/monsters actual equipment they can use and then drop naturally. You can combine this with a trinke

by Udo 12y ago

A better approach (IMHO) to loot in RPG games is to give NPCs/monsters actual equipment they can use and then drop naturally. You can combine this with a trinket generator to give each one a little more flavor. Of course some mobs carry stuff they can't use themselves (for example because it is assumed they looted it off someone), that's also fine - just put it into the "character generator" function or the monster template. I'm a huge fan of giving mobs some history and uniqueness, and that's an easy way to do it. A nice side effect is that you don't have to think about loot separately when designing the content, because it comes naturally from the design of the mob. This also means that, by definition, a mob can never drop an inappropriate item. Recently, I re-discovered the ancient Baldur's Gate games (enhanced edition), and they do something similar. Mobs drop the actual equipment they have. Some loot traditionally comes from the body of the monster itself, like a rat's tail or a wolf's fur which you can bring to the next merchant or quest-giver for reward. A more natural method of doing it would be solely through the skill/crafting system, instead of dropping pre-defined animal parts just because they happen to be important to some quest.

cdr 12y ago
One of the many things I love about Dark Souls - enemies drop the arms/armor that they're wearing. It is a low to very low chance per drop, sometimes requiring farming if something you want isn't carried by a merchant, but the variance is good for normal gameplay.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
Recently, I re-discovered the ancient Baldur's Gate games (enhanced edition), and they do something similar. Mobs drop the actual equipment they have. Loved that mechanics in Fallout; the mobs (being 99% human anyway) had equipment, which included weapon(s), armours and some random stuff like money, drugs you'd expect a particular character to have. They could use all of their equipment in combat, and that's what you were taking after defeating them.
- jaredmcateer 12y ago
  I also loved the putpocket mechanic of Fallout, drop a live grenade in their inventory :)
dozzie 12y ago
Yes, with this approach you never see situations like "I killed a vamipire bat, let see what did it have... Halaberd?"
- Shivetya 12y ago
  I have had this explained by a friend in the business as, it was between you and the item; not necessarily carried or wielded by your foe. still it does make sense to more closely align items with the mobs that your fighting. This could be weapons, armors, trinkets, and such or craft supplies where you have to skin/harvest the kill.
  - taejo 12y ago
    > I have had this explained by a friend in the business as, it was between you and the item; not necessarily carried or wielded by your foe. That's fine in your average D&D game but in a Roguelike you've often explored the area enough to know that's not the case.
- lotharbot 12y ago
  "You have defeated: microbug. It dropped: piano." (From the now-defunct webcomic "rpgworld")
logicchains 12y ago
If I recall correctly, in Baldur's Gate mobs could also use the items they had. This made for some particularly fun battles when a mob had a powerful artifact that they were able to use. I imagine it also made design easier: to create an interesting new boss fight, instead of having to create a new creature, the designer could just use a common mob equipped with a powerful artifact.
- YokoZar 12y ago
  This can lead to a harder balancing problem, though, as the player becomes as powerful as the sum total of all previous monster equipment. If encounters aren't done in a specific order, that can be especially problematic.
  - logicchains 12y ago
    That's a good point. One potential way to handle it is to make many of the powerful monsters optional, and then have a more difficult "bonus dungeon" for players who had defeated all the optional, powerful monsters. Many JRPGs I've played did this, as did the expansion to Baldur's Gate 2.
whichdan 12y ago
Final Fantasy Tactics was a lot like that -- every random enemy in every random battle had a randomly generated name, and human enemies always had an interesting mix of level-appropriate armor and spells.
brickcap 12y ago
>Some loot traditionally comes from the body of the monster itself, like a rat's tail or a wolf's fur which you can bring to the next merchant or quest-giver for reward Monster hunter follows this idea as well. Almost all the loot comes from killing and carving monster. When you are on a quest you can do some stuff on the side like fishing/mining etc and you will get rewards which can be used in crafting weapons and armour.
munificent 12y ago
I think that's a cool idea, but in practice it doesn't seem to lead to very fun gameplay. It means a large swath of monsters: jellies, giant insects, wolves, bears, spiders, serpents, etc. wouldn't drop anything. You'd end up basically just trying to kill "monsters" that are humans. To me, that's not very fun. > You can combine this with a trinket generator to give each one a little more flavor. I do have that. They are "powers" and work similar to items in Diablo where they can be a prefix or suffix on the name of the item and modify its stats. So you can get a "Glimmering Stick of Wounding". > This also means that, by definition, a mob can never drop an inappropriate item. I did try this, but my experience was that it made killing mobs predictable and boring. "Oh, look, the wizard dropped yet another robe." I deliberately sacrificed realism (which is of limited value in my book anyway) to get a more exciting, surprising game. > Some loot traditionally comes from the body of the monster itself, like a rat's tail or a wolf's fur which you can bring to the next merchant or quest-giver for reward. A more natural method of doing it would be solely through the skill/crafting system, instead of dropping pre-defined animal parts just because they happen to be important to some quest. I do have that too. There is a "crucible" in the "town" where you can combine items to make new ones (again similar to Diablo). It's a fun mechanic, but I don't want to lean to heavily on it. I find games where you go into the dungeon, amass a pile of rat's tails, sell them, repeat, to be super boring.
- ars 12y ago
  > It means a large swath of monsters: jellies, giant insects, wolves, bears, spiders, serpents, etc. wouldn't drop anything Sure they would - a jelly drops a potion made from its body, the other animals have stingers, teeth and claws that are excellent weapons, and skin or plates that make armor. A petrified dead snake makes a great wand. A web from a spider can be used as a trap item (throw it at someone and "stun" them for a time). Make it reusable by pulling back the cord attached to it. A bear arm makes a sword-like slashing weapon.
  - Gravityloss 12y ago
    If going for realism, it could be argued that rare ferocious beasts, or their unique body parts could have very high trophy value (as opposed to humans). Just witness the extinction of many real life species that are killed for perceived magical qualities of a small body part. For added realism, it makes it easy to just leave the body to rot and sell the small rhino horn to shady criminals. For added effect, if they are rare enough, they become more valuable the more you kill them...

by Udo 12y ago

cdr 12y ago

One of the many things I love about Dark Souls - enemies drop the arms/armor that they're wearing. It is a low to very low chance per drop, sometimes requiring farming if something you want isn't carried by a merchant, but the variance is good for normal gameplay.

TeMPOraL 12y ago

Recently, I re-discovered the ancient Baldur's Gate games (enhanced edition), and they do something similar. Mobs drop the actual equipment they have. Loved that mechanics in Fallout; the mobs (being 99% human anyway) had equipment, which included weapon(s), armours and some random stuff like money, drugs you'd expect a particular character to have. They could use all of their equipment in combat, and that's what you were taking after defeating them.

jaredmcateer 12y ago
I also loved the putpocket mechanic of Fallout, drop a live grenade in their inventory :)

dozzie 12y ago

Yes, with this approach you never see situations like "I killed a vamipire bat, let see what did it have... Halaberd?"

Shivetya 12y ago
I have had this explained by a friend in the business as, it was between you and the item; not necessarily carried or wielded by your foe. still it does make sense to more closely align items with the mobs that your fighting. This could be weapons, armors, trinkets, and such or craft supplies where you have to skin/harvest the kill.
- taejo 12y ago
  > I have had this explained by a friend in the business as, it was between you and the item; not necessarily carried or wielded by your foe. That's fine in your average D&D game but in a Roguelike you've often explored the area enough to know that's not the case.
lotharbot 12y ago
"You have defeated: microbug. It dropped: piano." (From the now-defunct webcomic "rpgworld")

logicchains 12y ago

If I recall correctly, in Baldur's Gate mobs could also use the items they had. This made for some particularly fun battles when a mob had a powerful artifact that they were able to use. I imagine it also made design easier: to create an interesting new boss fight, instead of having to create a new creature, the designer could just use a common mob equipped with a powerful artifact.

YokoZar 12y ago
This can lead to a harder balancing problem, though, as the player becomes as powerful as the sum total of all previous monster equipment. If encounters aren't done in a specific order, that can be especially problematic.
- logicchains 12y ago
  That's a good point. One potential way to handle it is to make many of the powerful monsters optional, and then have a more difficult "bonus dungeon" for players who had defeated all the optional, powerful monsters. Many JRPGs I've played did this, as did the expansion to Baldur's Gate 2.

whichdan 12y ago

Final Fantasy Tactics was a lot like that -- every random enemy in every random battle had a randomly generated name, and human enemies always had an interesting mix of level-appropriate armor and spells.

brickcap 12y ago

>Some loot traditionally comes from the body of the monster itself, like a rat's tail or a wolf's fur which you can bring to the next merchant or quest-giver for reward Monster hunter follows this idea as well. Almost all the loot comes from killing and carving monster. When you are on a quest you can do some stuff on the side like fishing/mining etc and you will get rewards which can be used in crafting weapons and armour.

munificent 12y ago

I think that's a cool idea, but in practice it doesn't seem to lead to very fun gameplay. It means a large swath of monsters: jellies, giant insects, wolves, bears, spiders, serpents, etc. wouldn't drop anything. You'd end up basically just trying to kill "monsters" that are humans. To me, that's not very fun. > You can combine this with a trinket generator to give each one a little more flavor. I do have that. They are "powers" and work similar to items in Diablo where they can be a prefix or suffix on the name of the item and modify its stats. So you can get a "Glimmering Stick of Wounding". > This also means that, by definition, a mob can never drop an inappropriate item. I did try this, but my experience was that it made killing mobs predictable and boring. "Oh, look, the wizard dropped yet another robe." I deliberately sacrificed realism (which is of limited value in my book anyway) to get a more exciting, surprising game. > Some loot traditionally comes from the body of the monster itself, like a rat's tail or a wolf's fur which you can bring to the next merchant or quest-giver for reward. A more natural method of doing it would be solely through the skill/crafting system, instead of dropping pre-defined animal parts just because they happen to be important to some quest. I do have that too. There is a "crucible" in the "town" where you can combine items to make new ones (again similar to Diablo). It's a fun mechanic, but I don't want to lean to heavily on it. I find games where you go into the dungeon, amass a pile of rat's tails, sell them, repeat, to be super boring.

ars 12y ago
> It means a large swath of monsters: jellies, giant insects, wolves, bears, spiders, serpents, etc. wouldn't drop anything Sure they would - a jelly drops a potion made from its body, the other animals have stingers, teeth and claws that are excellent weapons, and skin or plates that make armor. A petrified dead snake makes a great wand. A web from a spider can be used as a trap item (throw it at someone and "stun" them for a time). Make it reusable by pulling back the cord attached to it. A bear arm makes a sword-like slashing weapon.
- Gravityloss 12y ago
  If going for realism, it could be argued that rare ferocious beasts, or their unique body parts could have very high trophy value (as opposed to humans). Just witness the extinction of many real life species that are killed for perceived magical qualities of a small body part. For added realism, it makes it easy to just leave the body to rot and sell the small rhino horn to shady criminals. For added effect, if they are rare enough, they become more valuable the more you kill them...