3 ms·

I don't see how that is supposed to be any recommendation. If Ceylon is going to be similar to Hibernate in terms of quality, simplicity, performance and amount

I don't see how that is supposed to be any recommendation. If Ceylon is going to be similar to Hibernate in terms of quality, simplicity, performance and amount of design WTFs, I don't want to touch it.

dominotw 12y ago
Just pointing it out, not an endorsement of any sort. I for one was relived and greatly thankful for Hibernate when it appeared on the scene dominated by J2EE and EJB's but thats a discussion I don't want to have in this thread.
strictfp 12y ago
Too be fair, Hibernate was a whole lot leaner when Gaving was leading the project. And Hibernate was one of the first ORMs, so he was at least pioneering a field, even if the idea admittedly turned out to be less great than initially thought. And while working on CDI and Weld, Gaving really was the one who pushed for "plug and play" in JBoss, mediating between departments and making sure stuff got usable and in some cases even quite fast. In the end, the Seam guys more or less abandoned EJB and more or less started the POJO trend. Additionally, I thing that Gavin was one of the first to spot where Hibernate was heading and started to work on ceylon quite early (I forgot when). And if you read what he has written you can tell that he knows his stuff! You have to give the guy some cred!
- frowaway001 12y ago
  Well, not sure. When he started Ceylon, he wasn't even aware of the existence of Scala. Kind of reminds me of the quote from the Groovy creator. Seems like most of the JVM languages these days are created because people are too lazy to research the state of the art...
  - mgkimsal 12y ago
    Or... the other projects need to do a better job of marketing to raise awareness in the first place?
- mushishi 12y ago
  I've been bitten by Hibernate and Seam badly. Although Ceylon might be cool, I've got reservations to take a look at it seriously. Not exactly because it is Gavin's work but because I am in no rush anymore to use bleeding edge to enthusiastically wreck myself over.

dominotw 12y ago

Just pointing it out, not an endorsement of any sort. I for one was relived and greatly thankful for Hibernate when it appeared on the scene dominated by J2EE and EJB's but thats a discussion I don't want to have in this thread.

strictfp 12y ago

Too be fair, Hibernate was a whole lot leaner when Gaving was leading the project. And Hibernate was one of the first ORMs, so he was at least pioneering a field, even if the idea admittedly turned out to be less great than initially thought. And while working on CDI and Weld, Gaving really was the one who pushed for "plug and play" in JBoss, mediating between departments and making sure stuff got usable and in some cases even quite fast. In the end, the Seam guys more or less abandoned EJB and more or less started the POJO trend. Additionally, I thing that Gavin was one of the first to spot where Hibernate was heading and started to work on ceylon quite early (I forgot when). And if you read what he has written you can tell that he knows his stuff! You have to give the guy some cred!

frowaway001 12y ago
Well, not sure. When he started Ceylon, he wasn't even aware of the existence of Scala. Kind of reminds me of the quote from the Groovy creator. Seems like most of the JVM languages these days are created because people are too lazy to research the state of the art...
- mgkimsal 12y ago
  Or... the other projects need to do a better job of marketing to raise awareness in the first place?
mushishi 12y ago
I've been bitten by Hibernate and Seam badly. Although Ceylon might be cool, I've got reservations to take a look at it seriously. Not exactly because it is Gavin's work but because I am in no rush anymore to use bleeding edge to enthusiastically wreck myself over.