5 ms·

People voluntarily leaving jobs at highest rate since 2009 downturn

66 points by e15ctr0n 12y ago

fsk 12y ago
By itself, quit rate is a meaningless statistic. They should lump it into two groups. 1. People who quit and find a new job within 1-2 months. 2. People who quit and don't find a new job within 1-2 months. Then, you can find out what % of people are quitting because they found a better job. It's even better if you can split (1) up into people who quit for a higher-paying job.
robogrowth 12y ago
A .2% yoy change is a sign of growing confidence lol..
- steveax 12y ago
  It's a 10% shift in the rate (and nearly 50% higher than the low point), so yes, it is significant.
gress 12y ago
The article assumes this is because of a greater sense of security in the labor market, but they ignore the other possibility - nastier jobs that promise less for the future.
- ChuckFrank 12y ago
  Having seen an upsurge in friends quitting, I can tell you that this is the reason for the quitting. Jobs are paying less, asking for more work, in conditions that are worse. This is especially difficult when you have a prior standard of work and pay to judge from. Most people are willing to cut their pay 20-30% from their top, but a 40-50% cut with worse conditions, and higher expectations, people will quit. That's what I'm seeing.
- pohl 12y ago
  ...or the liberating effect of knowing you'll have healthcare coverage wherever you go? (Chill with the downvotes, it's just a hypothesis.)
  - learc83 12y ago
    That's a very good point. I didn't really support Obamacare when it passed, but if helps separates health insurance from employment it's probably a net positive.
    - liveoneggs 12y ago
      this is a huge reason to support obamacare.. I know a guy who happens to be extremely specialized in a certain high-end medical finance suite. He could easily demand a very high consulting rate. However, his wife is a cancer survivor so under the old health laws he had to settle for a single employer at a hospital administration salary.
    - maheart 12y ago
      As a non-American, can you explain why you would not support Obamacare?
      - gress 12y ago
        ObamaCare has a few good features - heavy subsidy for those with very low income, and not turning people away who have pre-existing conditions. However, it has some extremely serious downsides. Firstly, it's the same predatory insurance companies providing the insurance, only you're forced to buy from them. The available choices have gone down, and in particular there is no catastrophic cover anymore. Also, none of the plans are great - you still end up paying a huge amount out of pocket if you get seriously ill. Basically it's tuned for people who overuse healthcare. For someone who actually takes good care of themselves but recognizes that serious conditions and accidents can happen to everyone, it's an extortion racket that will take money that could have been used for prevention and give it to the insurers.
      - gress 12y ago
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Compared to what? You don't get unemployment if you quit voluntarily, unless you can show you were effectiely forced out (eg abusive workplace or somesuch).
  - gress 12y ago
    Burning through savings looking for another job, working part time, trying to start something of one's own, relying on family members, recognizing that one's mental health is at stake and no job is better than personal collapse... There are lots of possibilities. Note that the uptick is relatively small. People don't have to be choosing rational or amazing alternatives. There just has to be a slightly larger percentage of people unable to handle the working conditions, and choosing any alternative.
    - meat_fist 12y ago
      I hate my job more than anything I've ever hated. Every morning when I wake up I try to figure out if today will be the day that I call in and tell my manager that I can't do this to myself anymore. My therapist keeps begging me to quit. Ultimately I'm just too afraid of not finding anything else to quit without a new job. I guess it is nice to know that I am not alone.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      Those possibilities all make sense at the individual level (I've had personal experience of several) but at the macro level the correlation with economic performance seems pretty tight. I'm having trouble buying the idea that negative reasons have taken over the trend. Nor do I think the uptick is especially small, it looks entirely proportional to me (bearing in mind that unemployment is a lagging indicator, and the financial crisis began in 08.
heydenberk 12y ago
Is this adjusted to account for people who age out of the workforce? Presumably, as baby boomers reach retirement age, more people will exit the workforce than enter it, even in good times. EDIT: Yes, this is among working-age people. But still, I'd assume early retirement would increase the numbers as baby boomers get older.
- jbigelow76 12y ago
  >Presumably, as baby boomers reach retirement age, more people will exit the workforce than enter it, even in good times That maybe offset by boomers working past traditional retirement age as pensions go broke, they live longer meaning nest eggs need to go further, and retirement accounts make up lost ground from the '08 recession.

66 points by e15ctr0n 12y ago

fsk 12y ago

By itself, quit rate is a meaningless statistic. They should lump it into two groups. 1. People who quit and find a new job within 1-2 months. 2. People who quit and don't find a new job within 1-2 months. Then, you can find out what % of people are quitting because they found a better job. It's even better if you can split (1) up into people who quit for a higher-paying job.

robogrowth 12y ago

A .2% yoy change is a sign of growing confidence lol..

steveax 12y ago
It's a 10% shift in the rate (and nearly 50% higher than the low point), so yes, it is significant.

gress 12y ago

The article assumes this is because of a greater sense of security in the labor market, but they ignore the other possibility - nastier jobs that promise less for the future.

ChuckFrank 12y ago
Having seen an upsurge in friends quitting, I can tell you that this is the reason for the quitting. Jobs are paying less, asking for more work, in conditions that are worse. This is especially difficult when you have a prior standard of work and pay to judge from. Most people are willing to cut their pay 20-30% from their top, but a 40-50% cut with worse conditions, and higher expectations, people will quit. That's what I'm seeing.
pohl 12y ago
...or the liberating effect of knowing you'll have healthcare coverage wherever you go? (Chill with the downvotes, it's just a hypothesis.)
- learc83 12y ago
  That's a very good point. I didn't really support Obamacare when it passed, but if helps separates health insurance from employment it's probably a net positive.
  - liveoneggs 12y ago
    this is a huge reason to support obamacare.. I know a guy who happens to be extremely specialized in a certain high-end medical finance suite. He could easily demand a very high consulting rate. However, his wife is a cancer survivor so under the old health laws he had to settle for a single employer at a hospital administration salary.
  - maheart 12y ago
    As a non-American, can you explain why you would not support Obamacare?
    - gress 12y ago
      ObamaCare has a few good features - heavy subsidy for those with very low income, and not turning people away who have pre-existing conditions. However, it has some extremely serious downsides. Firstly, it's the same predatory insurance companies providing the insurance, only you're forced to buy from them. The available choices have gone down, and in particular there is no catastrophic cover anymore. Also, none of the plans are great - you still end up paying a huge amount out of pocket if you get seriously ill. Basically it's tuned for people who overuse healthcare. For someone who actually takes good care of themselves but recognizes that serious conditions and accidents can happen to everyone, it's an extortion racket that will take money that could have been used for prevention and give it to the insurers.
    - gress 12y ago
anigbrowl 12y ago
Compared to what? You don't get unemployment if you quit voluntarily, unless you can show you were effectiely forced out (eg abusive workplace or somesuch).
- gress 12y ago
  Burning through savings looking for another job, working part time, trying to start something of one's own, relying on family members, recognizing that one's mental health is at stake and no job is better than personal collapse... There are lots of possibilities. Note that the uptick is relatively small. People don't have to be choosing rational or amazing alternatives. There just has to be a slightly larger percentage of people unable to handle the working conditions, and choosing any alternative.
  - meat_fist 12y ago
    I hate my job more than anything I've ever hated. Every morning when I wake up I try to figure out if today will be the day that I call in and tell my manager that I can't do this to myself anymore. My therapist keeps begging me to quit. Ultimately I'm just too afraid of not finding anything else to quit without a new job. I guess it is nice to know that I am not alone.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    Those possibilities all make sense at the individual level (I've had personal experience of several) but at the macro level the correlation with economic performance seems pretty tight. I'm having trouble buying the idea that negative reasons have taken over the trend. Nor do I think the uptick is especially small, it looks entirely proportional to me (bearing in mind that unemployment is a lagging indicator, and the financial crisis began in 08.

heydenberk 12y ago

Is this adjusted to account for people who age out of the workforce? Presumably, as baby boomers reach retirement age, more people will exit the workforce than enter it, even in good times. EDIT: Yes, this is among working-age people. But still, I'd assume early retirement would increase the numbers as baby boomers get older.

jbigelow76 12y ago
>Presumably, as baby boomers reach retirement age, more people will exit the workforce than enter it, even in good times That maybe offset by boomers working past traditional retirement age as pensions go broke, they live longer meaning nest eggs need to go further, and retirement accounts make up lost ground from the '08 recession.