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"spending the other $600 billion evenly between education, infrastructure and investing in new businesses/re-training." I have recently started to believe that

"spending the other $600 billion evenly between education, infrastructure and investing in new businesses/re-training." I have recently started to believe that most people get the casualty wrong between education/training and industrial advancement. If you want more engineers, spend money in a way that creates more engineering jobs, do not simply educate engineers for jobs that do not exist. If you create the jobs, people will change college majors or teach themselves. Industries will create apprenticeship programs to compensate for the undersupply, etc. I think the U.S. already spends more than enough money to provide enough book learning to meet the demands of industry. Spending more without creating the jobs would be a waste of money. (Note I am not arguing that spending the money on the F-35 was the best use of the money, just that spending money on more education is also not a good use of money).

rayiner 12y ago
I was an aerospace undergrad in Georgia Tech, which has a pretty close relationship with Lockheed-Martin by virtue of geography. My observation was that projects like the F-35 create lots of technology and create the monetary incentive for training lots of engineers. It's maybe not the most efficient way to do those things, but it's not like all that money is just thrown in a hole.
- isomorphic 12y ago
  s/F-35/Mars Lander/
ihsw 12y ago
Most people don't move beyond where they live, so "creating jobs" is a highly localized event that requires targeted and planned injection of resources. And even so, these resources can and do disappear. Personally I think reducing friction to moving elsewhere -- be it across state boundaries or across oceans -- should be prioritized. This would involve supporting/subsidizing public transportation infrastructure on a massive scale, which has benefits that are unrelated to increased personal mobility. Supporting the the "creation of jobs" is ephemeral by nature -- the need for those jobs is not permanent, however the supporting transportation infrastructure has a far greater sense of permanence.
daeken 12y ago
> If you create the jobs, people will change college majors or teach themselves. Industries will create apprenticeship programs to compensate for the undersupply, etc. The dearth of plumbers, electricians, mechanics, welders, and other tradespeople in the US completely disagrees with this. These are very frequently high-paying jobs (even if you judge by the tech industry yardstick) and there simply aren't enough people to fill the jobs. Mike Rowe has been campaigning about this for years now, to try to get people back into the trade, and it's just not happening.
- ixnu 12y ago
  Do you have data to support this claim? It would certainly depend on location, but BLS average salary data seems to point otherwise: Plumbers $49K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-... Electricians $49K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electrici... Mechanics $36K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/automotive-service-technicians-and-mechanics.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/a... Welders $36K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-... -VS- Software Developer $93K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/s... Computer Programer $74K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/c...

rayiner 12y ago

I was an aerospace undergrad in Georgia Tech, which has a pretty close relationship with Lockheed-Martin by virtue of geography. My observation was that projects like the F-35 create lots of technology and create the monetary incentive for training lots of engineers. It's maybe not the most efficient way to do those things, but it's not like all that money is just thrown in a hole.

isomorphic 12y ago
s/F-35/Mars Lander/

ihsw 12y ago

Most people don't move beyond where they live, so "creating jobs" is a highly localized event that requires targeted and planned injection of resources. And even so, these resources can and do disappear. Personally I think reducing friction to moving elsewhere -- be it across state boundaries or across oceans -- should be prioritized. This would involve supporting/subsidizing public transportation infrastructure on a massive scale, which has benefits that are unrelated to increased personal mobility. Supporting the the "creation of jobs" is ephemeral by nature -- the need for those jobs is not permanent, however the supporting transportation infrastructure has a far greater sense of permanence.

daeken 12y ago

> If you create the jobs, people will change college majors or teach themselves. Industries will create apprenticeship programs to compensate for the undersupply, etc. The dearth of plumbers, electricians, mechanics, welders, and other tradespeople in the US completely disagrees with this. These are very frequently high-paying jobs (even if you judge by the tech industry yardstick) and there simply aren't enough people to fill the jobs. Mike Rowe has been campaigning about this for years now, to try to get people back into the trade, and it's just not happening.

ixnu 12y ago
Do you have data to support this claim? It would certainly depend on location, but BLS average salary data seems to point otherwise: Plumbers $49K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-... Electricians $49K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electrici... Mechanics $36K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/automotive-service-technicians-and-mechanics.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/a... Welders $36K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-... -VS- Software Developer $93K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/s... Computer Programer $74K: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/c...