4 ms·

Show HN: Entomic - build websites and see them update live on any device

34 points by redact207 12y ago

codezero 12y ago
This looks pretty neat. I think that, even if not in the long term, for a launch like this, HN people will want to see the more visible "free" option to better evaluate your offering. Having that more prominent, even if it's just from detecting the HN referrer, will eliminate a lot of noise. The "Try It" option is good and may make up a bit for it, but I still think it would be good to have a nice, initial free offering.
- redact207 12y ago
  Thanks for the feedback - you're probably right about the free option. This has been my pet project for the last 9 months and would benefit from a more extensive free or beta period. If anyone's interested I can set you up with a beta account which will give you full unrestricted access.
  - tmchow 12y ago
    I'd love one to kick the tires for awhile.
    - redact207 12y ago
      Sure thing, where can I send you an email?
  - NicoJuicy 12y ago
    Hook me up if it's possible :-)
    - redact207 12y ago
      sent
fabrice_d 12y ago
What's missing in non-chrome browsers to get it to run?
- redact207 12y ago
  A lot of testing :) You can attach Firefox, IE, Safari etc as a preview client to do cross-browser testing as you develop, but I've kept the IDE targetting Chrome for now so I can focus on adding features (still a lot more to do).
cstrat 12y ago
Very cool idea and excellent implementation, works amazingly well! While playing around with it I was just thinking that what this is doing is shifting the complexity of web design away from HTML and CSS, into the dynamic IDE. If I were to put the complexity on a scale, starting with raw code at one end and a WYSIWYG editor at the other - I would think that this is still closer to the coding by hand than WYSIWYG.
- redact207 12y ago
  I think you summed it up quite well. I want to keep Entomic as close to the code as I can. Devs already know HTML and CSS, so there's no point learning a WYSIWYG editor where you can't transfer your knowledge. Also when you put an interface between code and the developer, he/she will eventually end up fighting the interface to do something they could do easily with just code. Where I see Entomic is to make the process of coding faster, to minimize writing bugs, and to get instant feedback on your site as you make it so you can catch any issues before they get too entangled with the project. That's the plan anyway :)
SimeVidas 12y ago
“Oops… You’re not running Google Chrome.” You’re doing it wrong -.- (unless you’re doing the “negative publicity is still publicity” routine in which case meh)
- redact207 12y ago
  soz, will improve compatibility on the IDE one day :)
  - SimeVidas 12y ago
    In the meantime, I propose this message: https://twitter.com/simevidas/status/485086680031166465 https://twitter.com/simevidas/status/485086680031166465 :P
    - gravity13 12y ago
      Why are you being such an asshole? Maybe you like spending hours compatibilizing an authoring tool that isn't meant to be mass-consumed (only the output is). Maybe you like spending days continuously testing for other browsers' dumb implementations of the spec. Maybe you actually have the time to fart around and worry about dumb things all day. These guys don't seem to, though.
      - SimeVidas 12y ago
        How am I being an asshole? The message I proposed is factually correct and, equally important, honest. Their current message "Oops... you're not using Chrome" is not recommended, IMO, as it triggers a negative response with some visitors. Btw, I've tested their tool in Firefox (by spoofing my UA string). From what I can see, it works fine. I recommend testing in Firefox, resolving any issues, and then, including Firefox in the list of supported browsers.
ux-app 12y ago
Wow! this is an extremely impressive product. Your on-boarding process was excellent. Seeing the preview site update on my iPad in real-time was very effective - well done. In regards to the actual product: at the moment it seems a little too code focused for the designer that does a little code, and a little too visual for a coder who does some design work. I did discover some neat keyboard navigation for the DOM editor and I assume this type of keyboard integration is available across the app. This could go a long way to satisfy the coder. For me, personally, editing HTML using a visual DOM editor is harder than working with markup, although I can see that if I devoted enough time to remap my muscle memory it could be a faster way to work. The interface is very busy. You may want to find a way of showing only the information relative to the current context. The way you've handled responsive design is great, especially in combination with a device preview. It would be nice to be able to click on the preview section and have the editor jump straight to the DOM node DOM panel. Overall though, the polish of this app and documentation is excellent. Hope your launch goes well! For my own curiosity: what are the very large PNG files used for? There are 4 images that come down the wire at 4mb each!
- redact207 12y ago
  This is superb feedback, really appreciated and echoing a lot of what I've been thinking. I can't respond just yet to everything, but I'm going to nudge it in the direction of developers and focus on speeding up DOM/HTML & CSS development. Is there a way to get in touch with you? I'd love to bounce some ideas around and see what you think.

34 points by redact207 12y ago

This looks pretty neat. I think that, even if not in the long term, for a launch like this, HN people will want to see the more visible "free" option to better evaluate your offering. Having that more prominent, even if it's just from detecting the HN referrer, will eliminate a lot of noise. The "Try It" option is good and may make up a bit for it, but I still think it would be good to have a nice, initial free offering.

redact207 12y ago
Thanks for the feedback - you're probably right about the free option. This has been my pet project for the last 9 months and would benefit from a more extensive free or beta period. If anyone's interested I can set you up with a beta account which will give you full unrestricted access.
- tmchow 12y ago
  I'd love one to kick the tires for awhile.
  - redact207 12y ago
    Sure thing, where can I send you an email?
- NicoJuicy 12y ago
  Hook me up if it's possible :-)
  - redact207 12y ago
    sent

fabrice_d 12y ago

What's missing in non-chrome browsers to get it to run?

redact207 12y ago
A lot of testing :) You can attach Firefox, IE, Safari etc as a preview client to do cross-browser testing as you develop, but I've kept the IDE targetting Chrome for now so I can focus on adding features (still a lot more to do).

cstrat 12y ago

Very cool idea and excellent implementation, works amazingly well! While playing around with it I was just thinking that what this is doing is shifting the complexity of web design away from HTML and CSS, into the dynamic IDE. If I were to put the complexity on a scale, starting with raw code at one end and a WYSIWYG editor at the other - I would think that this is still closer to the coding by hand than WYSIWYG.

redact207 12y ago
I think you summed it up quite well. I want to keep Entomic as close to the code as I can. Devs already know HTML and CSS, so there's no point learning a WYSIWYG editor where you can't transfer your knowledge. Also when you put an interface between code and the developer, he/she will eventually end up fighting the interface to do something they could do easily with just code. Where I see Entomic is to make the process of coding faster, to minimize writing bugs, and to get instant feedback on your site as you make it so you can catch any issues before they get too entangled with the project. That's the plan anyway :)

SimeVidas 12y ago

“Oops… You’re not running Google Chrome.” You’re doing it wrong -.- (unless you’re doing the “negative publicity is still publicity” routine in which case meh)

redact207 12y ago
soz, will improve compatibility on the IDE one day :)
- SimeVidas 12y ago
  In the meantime, I propose this message: https://twitter.com/simevidas/status/485086680031166465 https://twitter.com/simevidas/status/485086680031166465 :P
  - gravity13 12y ago
    Why are you being such an asshole? Maybe you like spending hours compatibilizing an authoring tool that isn't meant to be mass-consumed (only the output is). Maybe you like spending days continuously testing for other browsers' dumb implementations of the spec. Maybe you actually have the time to fart around and worry about dumb things all day. These guys don't seem to, though.
    - SimeVidas 12y ago
      How am I being an asshole? The message I proposed is factually correct and, equally important, honest. Their current message "Oops... you're not using Chrome" is not recommended, IMO, as it triggers a negative response with some visitors. Btw, I've tested their tool in Firefox (by spoofing my UA string). From what I can see, it works fine. I recommend testing in Firefox, resolving any issues, and then, including Firefox in the list of supported browsers.

ux-app 12y ago

Wow! this is an extremely impressive product. Your on-boarding process was excellent. Seeing the preview site update on my iPad in real-time was very effective - well done. In regards to the actual product: at the moment it seems a little too code focused for the designer that does a little code, and a little too visual for a coder who does some design work. I did discover some neat keyboard navigation for the DOM editor and I assume this type of keyboard integration is available across the app. This could go a long way to satisfy the coder. For me, personally, editing HTML using a visual DOM editor is harder than working with markup, although I can see that if I devoted enough time to remap my muscle memory it could be a faster way to work. The interface is very busy. You may want to find a way of showing only the information relative to the current context. The way you've handled responsive design is great, especially in combination with a device preview. It would be nice to be able to click on the preview section and have the editor jump straight to the DOM node DOM panel. Overall though, the polish of this app and documentation is excellent. Hope your launch goes well! For my own curiosity: what are the very large PNG files used for? There are 4 images that come down the wire at 4mb each!

redact207 12y ago
This is superb feedback, really appreciated and echoing a lot of what I've been thinking. I can't respond just yet to everything, but I'm going to nudge it in the direction of developers and focus on speeding up DOM/HTML & CSS development. Is there a way to get in touch with you? I'd love to bounce some ideas around and see what you think.