4 ms·

Have you got a time machine handy? If not, then neither the specific people who stole NOR the specific people who were stolen FROM are still alive today, so the

by glenra 12y ago

Have you got a time machine handy? If not, then neither the specific people who stole NOR the specific people who were stolen FROM are still alive today, so there's nobody to "give back" to unless you believe in some sort of "collective guilt" which is largely antithetical to libertarian thinking. And if you DO believe that there is a collective guilt like that, care to elaborate on how it might work? Should just anybody who moves to the US have to pay, even if they did so centuries after the crime? Should just anybody who joins or announces affiliation with an indian tribe receive payment, even if THEY did so centuries after the crime? (If so: I shall have to declare that I am a Hopi Indian. Or a Navajo. Whichever gets me a bigger share.)

whybroke 12y ago
No collective guilt at all. Simply if you own land in North America you have bought stolen goods and have no more legitimate claim on it than anyone else. You can not say "this is mine because I bought it from someone who bought it from someone who stole it from someone" And people who own no land haven't done anything wrong so no collective guilt at all. Only people own land are guilt. And even they owe nothing more than admitting their claim is bogus (or returning the land to the correct owner). If you can not find the rightful owner of something, that does not mean it is yours to keep. It means it is not yours until you can deal with the correct owner. If you can't find him or his descendents, too bad, you can't claim it any more than anyone else. >care to elaborate on how it might work Admit those ideas about private property are simply self serving and that claims to moral unquestionable ownership are bogus. Manage the land accordingly, preferably democratically acknowledging free markets and their limitations.
- glenra 12y ago
  I bought a house once, lived there for seven years, then sold it. I currently no longer own any land (I rent an apartment). So are you saying that I "was guilty" during those seven years and stopped being "guilty" when I sold it, because now somebody else is "guilty" in my stead? I'm actually surprised your (weird) claim is so restricted. Why are people who make use of land not also "guilty"? If I work for a company situated on some land, or I drive to work on roads situated on some land, shouldn't that count too?

by glenra 12y ago

whybroke 12y ago

No collective guilt at all. Simply if you own land in North America you have bought stolen goods and have no more legitimate claim on it than anyone else. You can not say "this is mine because I bought it from someone who bought it from someone who stole it from someone" And people who own no land haven't done anything wrong so no collective guilt at all. Only people own land are guilt. And even they owe nothing more than admitting their claim is bogus (or returning the land to the correct owner). If you can not find the rightful owner of something, that does not mean it is yours to keep. It means it is not yours until you can deal with the correct owner. If you can't find him or his descendents, too bad, you can't claim it any more than anyone else. >care to elaborate on how it might work Admit those ideas about private property are simply self serving and that claims to moral unquestionable ownership are bogus. Manage the land accordingly, preferably democratically acknowledging free markets and their limitations.

glenra 12y ago
I bought a house once, lived there for seven years, then sold it. I currently no longer own any land (I rent an apartment). So are you saying that I "was guilty" during those seven years and stopped being "guilty" when I sold it, because now somebody else is "guilty" in my stead? I'm actually surprised your (weird) claim is so restricted. Why are people who make use of land not also "guilty"? If I work for a company situated on some land, or I drive to work on roads situated on some land, shouldn't that count too?