6 ms·

I know you're not being serious about the bank thing, but I just want to say, if you're a programmer and you love what you do, and you're good enough to be choo

by eloff 12y ago

I know you're not being serious about the bank thing, but I just want to say, if you're a programmer and you love what you do, and you're good enough to be choosy, don't work for anyone (especially banks!) whose main job is not software. There are a few exceptional companies, but mostly it's a good rule of thumb. Working for Dilbert's pointy haired boss is just not a recipe for happiness - who cares if it pays well. Life is short, if you don't enjoy your job, change your job! At any rate that was advice given to me by my father, who worked in the IT department of a large oil company, had a long line of pointy haired bosses who took the credit for anything that went well, which was eventually gutted and outsourced leaving just him and a couple others as insurance. I've regretted it when I did not heed that advice.

georgemcbay 12y ago
Well onion2k's premise was that you wanted to make millions in software. If that is your #1 priority, then working in finance is probably your best bet (unfortunately, IMO). Working for a "pure" software company is great advice if you are optimizing for overall happiness, but not so much for maximizing your income.
- Domenic_S 12y ago
  Like every industry, "finance" spans a wide gamut of jobs both low and high paying.
  - georgemcbay 12y ago
    Well, to be more specific, when I say "finance" I basically mean doing HFT/quant software development. High stress, high burnout, but also really high reward/bonuses on success when compared to most software jobs.
7Figures2Commas 12y ago
Lots of "software" companies are just as political as big corporations, and startups in particularly are often much more chaotic/stressful and offer far less job security. Notwithstanding the fact that a ton of companies that would like to believe they're "software" companies really aren't, the high turnover at Silicon Valley firms suggests that working for these types of software-centric employers isn't the happiness panacea you make it out to be.
adrianhoward 12y ago
"I know you're not being serious about the bank thing, but I just want to say, if you're a programmer and you love what you do, and you're good enough to be choosy, don't work for anyone (especially banks!) whose main job is not software. " I'd disagree with that. Some of the most entertaining bits of work I've ever done were for companies whose main job wasn't software. The problem isn't companies who aren't focussed on software. The problem is companies that don't value the great things that software-oriented folk can produce. Unfortunately there are plenty of the latter in the software-focused end of the spectrum too. Don't work anywhere that treats you badly. Sure. Don't work anywhere that doesn't value you. Sure. Don't work anywhere you don't enjoy yourself. Sure. But I know some folk who are having excellent fun at banks. Solving stupidly hard problems that fascinate 'em, fostered by great management, and being compensated very well for their trouble.. I know others who have worked at large tech focussed companies that have had bloody awful stories of management idiocy. Hell — I've got more than enough horror stories from smaller tech-focused organisations.
- eloff 12y ago
  Yes, there are exceptions, and the converse doesn't hold. But it works as a simplification when you're hunting for a job. You're right that the underlying problem is finding work where you're valued and, I'll add, where you work with great people. If pointy haired boss did the hiring, your coworkers are likely going to be inept to add to your misery.
CodeMage 12y ago
> [...] if you're a programmer and you love what you do, and you're good enough to be choosy, don't work for anyone (especially banks!) whose main job is not software. I cannot agree enough with this. I know it's anecdotal, but I've had more than ten jobs in my career so far and the only exception to what you're saying was an initiative by a highly technical and visionary director (later VP), which was scrapped as soon as he left the company. The point I'm trying to make is that it sure is possible to have a really fun and challenging job as a programmer in a non-software company, but it's a stroke of luck you should never, ever rely on and it won't last. At least, that's according to my experience so far.
graylights 12y ago
I disagree and I would change your statement: Don't work for anyone whose success is not tied to the success of their software. Plenty of non-software companies can live or die on the quality of their algorithms. It could be a small development team but it can be challenging and rewarding. Plus it will give you a bigger perspective. The key is to work somewhere that you are valued.
paulhauggis 12y ago
I disagree. I have only worked for companies whose main business was not software and it was great: high salary and great hours. Since we weren't under the gun to get the next release out, we could tke our time and do things right.

by eloff 12y ago

georgemcbay 12y ago

Well onion2k's premise was that you wanted to make millions in software. If that is your #1 priority, then working in finance is probably your best bet (unfortunately, IMO). Working for a "pure" software company is great advice if you are optimizing for overall happiness, but not so much for maximizing your income.

Domenic_S 12y ago
Like every industry, "finance" spans a wide gamut of jobs both low and high paying.
- georgemcbay 12y ago
  Well, to be more specific, when I say "finance" I basically mean doing HFT/quant software development. High stress, high burnout, but also really high reward/bonuses on success when compared to most software jobs.

7Figures2Commas 12y ago

Lots of "software" companies are just as political as big corporations, and startups in particularly are often much more chaotic/stressful and offer far less job security. Notwithstanding the fact that a ton of companies that would like to believe they're "software" companies really aren't, the high turnover at Silicon Valley firms suggests that working for these types of software-centric employers isn't the happiness panacea you make it out to be.

adrianhoward 12y ago

"I know you're not being serious about the bank thing, but I just want to say, if you're a programmer and you love what you do, and you're good enough to be choosy, don't work for anyone (especially banks!) whose main job is not software. " I'd disagree with that. Some of the most entertaining bits of work I've ever done were for companies whose main job wasn't software. The problem isn't companies who aren't focussed on software. The problem is companies that don't value the great things that software-oriented folk can produce. Unfortunately there are plenty of the latter in the software-focused end of the spectrum too. Don't work anywhere that treats you badly. Sure. Don't work anywhere that doesn't value you. Sure. Don't work anywhere you don't enjoy yourself. Sure. But I know some folk who are having excellent fun at banks. Solving stupidly hard problems that fascinate 'em, fostered by great management, and being compensated very well for their trouble.. I know others who have worked at large tech focussed companies that have had bloody awful stories of management idiocy. Hell — I've got more than enough horror stories from smaller tech-focused organisations.

eloff 12y ago
Yes, there are exceptions, and the converse doesn't hold. But it works as a simplification when you're hunting for a job. You're right that the underlying problem is finding work where you're valued and, I'll add, where you work with great people. If pointy haired boss did the hiring, your coworkers are likely going to be inept to add to your misery.

CodeMage 12y ago

> [...] if you're a programmer and you love what you do, and you're good enough to be choosy, don't work for anyone (especially banks!) whose main job is not software. I cannot agree enough with this. I know it's anecdotal, but I've had more than ten jobs in my career so far and the only exception to what you're saying was an initiative by a highly technical and visionary director (later VP), which was scrapped as soon as he left the company. The point I'm trying to make is that it sure is possible to have a really fun and challenging job as a programmer in a non-software company, but it's a stroke of luck you should never, ever rely on and it won't last. At least, that's according to my experience so far.

graylights 12y ago

I disagree and I would change your statement: Don't work for anyone whose success is not tied to the success of their software. Plenty of non-software companies can live or die on the quality of their algorithms. It could be a small development team but it can be challenging and rewarding. Plus it will give you a bigger perspective. The key is to work somewhere that you are valued.

paulhauggis 12y ago

I disagree. I have only worked for companies whose main business was not software and it was great: high salary and great hours. Since we weren't under the gun to get the next release out, we could tke our time and do things right.