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Holy smokes, where to begin... > if rich people don't create jobs, then how can it be their fault that there are not enough jobs? No one is blaming rich peopl

Holy smokes, where to begin... > if rich people don't create jobs, then how can it be their fault that there are not enough jobs? No one is blaming rich people. They are blaming the system (aspects of it, at least) that we have collectively created. >If jobs really come from the middle class, why hasn't the middle class created more of them? Much like fire needs heat, oxygen, and a fuel a successful business needs entrepreneurs, capital, and demand. If the middle class doesn't have disposable income that limits available capital and demand for creating and sustaining a business by middle class entrepreneurs. >Arguing that wages for middle class jobs should go up raises the question of where that wage money should come from. The answer is capital, i.e. rich people. Creating value creates money. That's how this whole thing works. It doesn't have to come from rich people, it comes, ultimately, from profit. >The USSR and China attempted to eliminate rich people by adopting a communist economy. You are jumping a bit far, there. I don't think anyone is advocating communism. >But before there was Google or the iPhone, there were rich people writing checks to the people who envisioned them. Capital doesn't have to come from rich people. Just as centralization of economic control is inefficient and ultimately harmful in communist systems you cite, it is just as destructive in a capitalist system.

snowwrestler 12y ago
The terminology makes it very difficult to have a productive discussion. "Rich people" are not rich the way that Asian people are Asian. A rich person is simply a person who has the legal right to direct large amounts of wealth. Conversely, every piece of wealth has at least one person who has the legal right to direct it. So when you make a statement like "It doesn't have to come from rich people, it comes, ultimately, from profit," it's a somewhat meaningless distinction because every piece of profit is controlled by a person somewhere. A rich person is just a person who has the legal right to direct large amounts of profit (i.e. wealth). Therefore their decisions will have larger effects on job creation. Ultimately it doesn't matter that jobs are created by rich people. What matters is what policy steps we can take to improve job creation, wages, and opportunity for U.S. citizens. Unfortunately actual policy discussions are too frequently railroaded by framing arguments like "do rich people create jobs."
- clavalle 12y ago
  >So when you make a statement like "It doesn't have to come from rich people, it comes, ultimately, from profit," it's a somewhat meaningless distinction because every piece of profit is controlled by a person somewhere. It is not meaningless at all. Rich people are individuals that control large amounts of wealth. This is opposed to groups of people who collectively control large amounts of wealth. A superintendent of a large school district can control a billion dollars of wealth but that doesn't make him or her rich (though they make a good salary I'd still classify them, personally, as solidly middle class). And it certainly does matter if we rely increasingly on fewer and fewer individuals (due to increasing inequality) to make economic decisions for everyone. It is inherently inefficient. What we are talking about is identifying this trend as a problem and implementing policies to counteract it before it becomes intractable.
  - snowwrestler 12y ago
    School districts don't make a profit, they are funded from profits. Before a school district can have a billion dollars to spend, that wealth has to be generated somehow. > And it certainly does matter if we rely increasingly on fewer and fewer individuals (due to increasing inequality) to make economic decisions for everyone. I agree with this, but it doesn't disagree with the idea that rich people create jobs.
    - clavalle 12y ago
      School districts don't make a profit but they do create value, but that is a digression. >I agree with this, but it doesn't disagree with the idea that rich people create jobs. Rich people can create jobs, but we shouldn't over-rely on that mechanism. They aren't the only ones creating jobs is my point.

snowwrestler 12y ago

The terminology makes it very difficult to have a productive discussion. "Rich people" are not rich the way that Asian people are Asian. A rich person is simply a person who has the legal right to direct large amounts of wealth. Conversely, every piece of wealth has at least one person who has the legal right to direct it. So when you make a statement like "It doesn't have to come from rich people, it comes, ultimately, from profit," it's a somewhat meaningless distinction because every piece of profit is controlled by a person somewhere. A rich person is just a person who has the legal right to direct large amounts of profit (i.e. wealth). Therefore their decisions will have larger effects on job creation. Ultimately it doesn't matter that jobs are created by rich people. What matters is what policy steps we can take to improve job creation, wages, and opportunity for U.S. citizens. Unfortunately actual policy discussions are too frequently railroaded by framing arguments like "do rich people create jobs."

clavalle 12y ago
>So when you make a statement like "It doesn't have to come from rich people, it comes, ultimately, from profit," it's a somewhat meaningless distinction because every piece of profit is controlled by a person somewhere. It is not meaningless at all. Rich people are individuals that control large amounts of wealth. This is opposed to groups of people who collectively control large amounts of wealth. A superintendent of a large school district can control a billion dollars of wealth but that doesn't make him or her rich (though they make a good salary I'd still classify them, personally, as solidly middle class). And it certainly does matter if we rely increasingly on fewer and fewer individuals (due to increasing inequality) to make economic decisions for everyone. It is inherently inefficient. What we are talking about is identifying this trend as a problem and implementing policies to counteract it before it becomes intractable.
- snowwrestler 12y ago
  School districts don't make a profit, they are funded from profits. Before a school district can have a billion dollars to spend, that wealth has to be generated somehow. > And it certainly does matter if we rely increasingly on fewer and fewer individuals (due to increasing inequality) to make economic decisions for everyone. I agree with this, but it doesn't disagree with the idea that rich people create jobs.
  - clavalle 12y ago
    School districts don't make a profit but they do create value, but that is a digression. >I agree with this, but it doesn't disagree with the idea that rich people create jobs. Rich people can create jobs, but we shouldn't over-rely on that mechanism. They aren't the only ones creating jobs is my point.