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If you actually cared about understanding supply and demand you would know: “supply and demand" is really a theorem about microeconomics and you’re on shaky gr

If you actually cared about understanding supply and demand you would know: “supply and demand" is really a theorem about microeconomics and you’re on shaky ground when you start trying to apply it to macro phenomena. People do it all the time, but that doesn’t make it valid, because… “supply and demand” requires that everything else in the market is held constant; you can’t make that assumption for macro phenomena, and you especially can’t do so when discussing wages. “supply and demand” as commonly quoted is a theorem that depends on certain assumptions about the demand curves of the goods in question, and it’s at least not obvious that the demand curves for labor satisfy those assumptions. Looking at your other comments, you don’t really seem to be interested in understanding anything, however, so I’ll let you resume your regularly scheduled trolling now.

ancap 12y ago
The fact that minimum wage increases unemployment is clearly demonstrated at a micro economic level. Reading the link I previously posted an actual case study of small business owners who, in their own microeconomic sphere, will have to fire workers due to increases in minimum wage. >Looking at your other comments, you don’t really seem to be interested in understanding anything, however, so I’ll let you resume your regularly scheduled trolling now. In other words, "My logic cannot counter, so I will resort to insults."
- lhc- 12y ago
  You can't take one owner saying he will fire an employee to mean that unemployment as a whole will increase. What about another owner who suggests he will hire more people, since all his customers now have more money to spend and will increase his business? You're demonstrating exactly why microeconomics != macroeconomics: you can't just eliminate the vast number of other factors involved when trying to extrapolate a micro result to the macro sphere.
- lukeschlather 12y ago
  The link is self-reported statements of people who have a vested interest in suppressing wages. The fundamental, persistent flaw in your argument is that you're not distinguishing between observed effects of changes to the minimum wage vs. what people believe about changes to the minimum wage. You're not even bothering to acknowledge the distinction. There's also the assumption implicit in your argument that reduced employment is bad, which is also plainly wrong. It's better for society to have 400 hours of labor at $15/hour than 500 hours of labor at $14/hour. Everything we know about productivity says reduced hours are good, and we should be structuring wages to penalize companies for overworking employees. Not just because it's better for employees, but because it's better for business.
  - ancap 12y ago
    >you're not distinguishing between observed effects of changes to the minimum wage vs. what people believe about changes to the minimum wage The observations are plainly evident. Those who a minimum wage affect are largely the unskilled, which over proportionally includes young people and minorities. The rate of unemployment in black teenagers is currently somewhere around 30%. http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/minimum-wage-s-discriminatory-effects.html http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/minimum-wage...
mturmon 12y ago
Well said, thanks. It's galling because the commenter is both very certain, and wrong, to make such claims without taking the macro situation into account. It's not just one independent variable.

ancap 12y ago

The fact that minimum wage increases unemployment is clearly demonstrated at a micro economic level. Reading the link I previously posted an actual case study of small business owners who, in their own microeconomic sphere, will have to fire workers due to increases in minimum wage. >Looking at your other comments, you don’t really seem to be interested in understanding anything, however, so I’ll let you resume your regularly scheduled trolling now. In other words, "My logic cannot counter, so I will resort to insults."

lhc- 12y ago
You can't take one owner saying he will fire an employee to mean that unemployment as a whole will increase. What about another owner who suggests he will hire more people, since all his customers now have more money to spend and will increase his business? You're demonstrating exactly why microeconomics != macroeconomics: you can't just eliminate the vast number of other factors involved when trying to extrapolate a micro result to the macro sphere.
lukeschlather 12y ago
The link is self-reported statements of people who have a vested interest in suppressing wages. The fundamental, persistent flaw in your argument is that you're not distinguishing between observed effects of changes to the minimum wage vs. what people believe about changes to the minimum wage. You're not even bothering to acknowledge the distinction. There's also the assumption implicit in your argument that reduced employment is bad, which is also plainly wrong. It's better for society to have 400 hours of labor at $15/hour than 500 hours of labor at $14/hour. Everything we know about productivity says reduced hours are good, and we should be structuring wages to penalize companies for overworking employees. Not just because it's better for employees, but because it's better for business.
- ancap 12y ago
  >you're not distinguishing between observed effects of changes to the minimum wage vs. what people believe about changes to the minimum wage The observations are plainly evident. Those who a minimum wage affect are largely the unskilled, which over proportionally includes young people and minorities. The rate of unemployment in black teenagers is currently somewhere around 30%. http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/minimum-wage-s-discriminatory-effects.html http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/minimum-wage...

mturmon 12y ago

Well said, thanks. It's galling because the commenter is both very certain, and wrong, to make such claims without taking the macro situation into account. It's not just one independent variable.