4 ms·

Without a defined voltage, mA and mAh are meaningless. We could assume that they used a 3.7V lithium battery because that tends to be the case with this type of

by leoedin 12y ago

Without a defined voltage, mA and mAh are meaningless. We could assume that they used a 3.7V lithium battery because that tends to be the case with this type of technology, but it isn't stated anywhere. The criticism is completely valid.

vacri 12y ago
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. The criticism is not completely valid - I've just given you an example of where, in industry, it's used in the same manner as originally mentioned. You can shout at the wind that it's blowing wrong, but it's still going to blow - reporting power consumption in mA is used in industry, so it's useful to report. Anyway, batteries come in standard voltage ratings - 1.5, 3, 9, 12, 24, and a host more. You select a battery that has the same rating as your electrical tool's requirements, so the voltage is already known, and the charge is delivered within the tolerance range of that voltage rating. And whether you're working in amp-hours or joules, you still need to know the voltage rating of your power source, so you will have this information at hand - it's utter nonsense to think that the only rating you need to know would be joules, or that the voltage for a given model of battery would be mysteriously unknown (and even if it were, trivially solvable with a multimeter, unlike amp-hour or joule).
- leoedin 12y ago
  Your comments suggest to me that you're not a practising electronics engineer and don't have much experience with digital electronics design. You've demonstrated confused thinking about the meaning of units and complete ignorance of digital design processes. > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. I've read this a few times and I'm still at a loss as to what you're trying to say. > reporting power consumption in mA is used in industry, so it's useful to report. The example you gave is of a different industry. This device is a digital communications module, and so I'd expect information to be provided in a form which is useful for digital electronics desginers to use. The data provided by the Helium people is not sufficient to understand the power use of the radio. I agree that reporting current draw during transmission is useful, but it is only one of a number of figures required to allow an accurate assessment of the radio's capabilities and power consumption. The electronics industry has standardised on multi-page datasheets to provide key information on device functionality. There's a reason for this. Ultimately the information given about the device is not sufficient to allow a design engineer to make an accurate assessment of its capabilities.
  - vacri 12y ago
    This device is a digital communications module, and so I'd expect information to be provided in a form which is useful for digital electronics desginers to use. Yes, I am not a digital device engineer. I did, however, sit next to them and provision their designs for customers (also tested various bits of firmware for same). The 3G specialist low-power modems we used were rated by mA. Replacement modems we looked at were primarily rated by mA. Yes, there are datasheets, but the convention was to talk in current draw, not total power. Not to mention the original complaint was "they reported A, not j", not "they reported A, not a datasheet". I look forward to hearing you explain how 3G modems are 'different' to digital communications, just because they're transmitting over a paddock rather than a tenement. I've read this a few times and I'm still at a loss as to what you're trying to say. Well, basically it's saying that you using terms like "completely" is wrong. There are plenty of places in the real world where things don't follow the script laid down by "shoulds".
- chillingeffect 12y ago
  > reporting power consumption in mA is used in industry, so it's useful to report. You are not partially wrong. You are 100% wrong. Learn to accept feedback now or you will learn later when the stakes are higher. Or, seen from a customer's perspective: If this company is as stubborn and misguided about this, how much more of reality are they unwilling to allow in? Why shouldn't I go with a vendor who faces reality? AmpHours are not the same thing as reporting milliAmps. And neither one is power consumption. And neither one is useful for estimating power consumption. And don't bother looking for counter examples. That would be like showing me someone who said, "I drove three volts to work this morning." As far as your second paragraph, it demonstrates an extremely sparse knowledge of electronic engineering. Yes, you kind of have some things kind of right, but not enough to communicate or make important decisions. I would highly advise you to take on a seasoned electrical engineer stat. For example, you say "it's utter nonsense to think that the only rating you need to know would be Joules," but do you realize by only giving current you're doing the same or worse? This is all neverminding the entire dimensions of time and the long-term implications of those two things junior electrical engineers always screw up: heat and vibration.
  - vacri 12y ago
    do you realize by only giving current you're doing the same or worse? How can I possibly appease you, if you refuse to read my words properly - that is, even when the relevant italicised phrase is prefixed with exactly the criticism you're making? There's also a couple of other spots where you've twisted my words to better target your ire. Why on earth should I 'learn to accept feedback' of this shoddy quality?
- sidgup 12y ago
  Hopefully this video will kind of get at what all the other folks here are trying to point out regarding mAh or Ah being an utterly useless "power consumption" unit without explicitly defining the voltage. I too agree that 0.026mA is completely meaningless to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6qarkvwENM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6qarkvwENM

by leoedin 12y ago

vacri 12y ago

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. The criticism is not completely valid - I've just given you an example of where, in industry, it's used in the same manner as originally mentioned. You can shout at the wind that it's blowing wrong, but it's still going to blow - reporting power consumption in mA is used in industry, so it's useful to report. Anyway, batteries come in standard voltage ratings - 1.5, 3, 9, 12, 24, and a host more. You select a battery that has the same rating as your electrical tool's requirements, so the voltage is already known, and the charge is delivered within the tolerance range of that voltage rating. And whether you're working in amp-hours or joules, you still need to know the voltage rating of your power source, so you will have this information at hand - it's utter nonsense to think that the only rating you need to know would be joules, or that the voltage for a given model of battery would be mysteriously unknown (and even if it were, trivially solvable with a multimeter, unlike amp-hour or joule).

leoedin 12y ago
Your comments suggest to me that you're not a practising electronics engineer and don't have much experience with digital electronics design. You've demonstrated confused thinking about the meaning of units and complete ignorance of digital design processes. > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. I've read this a few times and I'm still at a loss as to what you're trying to say. > reporting power consumption in mA is used in industry, so it's useful to report. The example you gave is of a different industry. This device is a digital communications module, and so I'd expect information to be provided in a form which is useful for digital electronics desginers to use. The data provided by the Helium people is not sufficient to understand the power use of the radio. I agree that reporting current draw during transmission is useful, but it is only one of a number of figures required to allow an accurate assessment of the radio's capabilities and power consumption. The electronics industry has standardised on multi-page datasheets to provide key information on device functionality. There's a reason for this. Ultimately the information given about the device is not sufficient to allow a design engineer to make an accurate assessment of its capabilities.
- vacri 12y ago
  This device is a digital communications module, and so I'd expect information to be provided in a form which is useful for digital electronics desginers to use. Yes, I am not a digital device engineer. I did, however, sit next to them and provision their designs for customers (also tested various bits of firmware for same). The 3G specialist low-power modems we used were rated by mA. Replacement modems we looked at were primarily rated by mA. Yes, there are datasheets, but the convention was to talk in current draw, not total power. Not to mention the original complaint was "they reported A, not j", not "they reported A, not a datasheet". I look forward to hearing you explain how 3G modems are 'different' to digital communications, just because they're transmitting over a paddock rather than a tenement. I've read this a few times and I'm still at a loss as to what you're trying to say. Well, basically it's saying that you using terms like "completely" is wrong. There are plenty of places in the real world where things don't follow the script laid down by "shoulds".
chillingeffect 12y ago
> reporting power consumption in mA is used in industry, so it's useful to report. You are not partially wrong. You are 100% wrong. Learn to accept feedback now or you will learn later when the stakes are higher. Or, seen from a customer's perspective: If this company is as stubborn and misguided about this, how much more of reality are they unwilling to allow in? Why shouldn't I go with a vendor who faces reality? AmpHours are not the same thing as reporting milliAmps. And neither one is power consumption. And neither one is useful for estimating power consumption. And don't bother looking for counter examples. That would be like showing me someone who said, "I drove three volts to work this morning." As far as your second paragraph, it demonstrates an extremely sparse knowledge of electronic engineering. Yes, you kind of have some things kind of right, but not enough to communicate or make important decisions. I would highly advise you to take on a seasoned electrical engineer stat. For example, you say "it's utter nonsense to think that the only rating you need to know would be Joules," but do you realize by only giving current you're doing the same or worse? This is all neverminding the entire dimensions of time and the long-term implications of those two things junior electrical engineers always screw up: heat and vibration.
- vacri 12y ago
  do you realize by only giving current you're doing the same or worse? How can I possibly appease you, if you refuse to read my words properly - that is, even when the relevant italicised phrase is prefixed with exactly the criticism you're making? There's also a couple of other spots where you've twisted my words to better target your ire. Why on earth should I 'learn to accept feedback' of this shoddy quality?
sidgup 12y ago
Hopefully this video will kind of get at what all the other folks here are trying to point out regarding mAh or Ah being an utterly useless "power consumption" unit without explicitly defining the voltage. I too agree that 0.026mA is completely meaningless to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6qarkvwENM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6qarkvwENM