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Does this seem like a step backward to anyone else? We want to generate electricity with renewable sources instead of fossil fuels. Also, I'm skeptical that a s

by joncp 12y ago

Does this seem like a step backward to anyone else? We want to generate electricity with renewable sources instead of fossil fuels. Also, I'm skeptical that a small in-home generator of any type could compete with the efficiency of a commercial power plant, even if that plant burns natural gas.

obvious_throw 12y ago
Renewables like wind and solar need EITHER enormous storage capacity, OR baseline supply to work with modern consumption patterns. Storage is both expensive and environmentally destructive - these engines could be a good fit for baseline generation to dramatically reduce the need for storage in a renewable system.
Sanddancer 12y ago
This is the first product, and is targeting areas where cheap natural gas is plentiful. However, because it's an external combustion engine, I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to build a future product where the heat differential is created from a different source, like solar tiles, or through geothermal differences.
maxerickson 12y ago
The electrical generation probably isn't more efficient, but the household/facility is, at least during times it has a use for the waste heat. The waste heat will be roughly 50% of the energy involved. The difference between the generators won't be that big. So each unit of fuel provides more energy to the end user (which is what I am calling efficiency, the energy utilized for something vs the energy consumed making it available).
Lagged2Death 12y ago
I'm skeptical that a small in-home generator of any type could compete with the efficiency of a commercial power plant, even if that plant burns natural gas. A small local generator will certainly be behind what a big commercial generator will do, but if the waste heat is also being harnessed ("Combined Heat and Power," or CHP), combined efficiencies of 60%-80% are possible. Commercial electrical generation is typically around 40% efficient, so CHP really can offer very big benefits. Of course, there's nothing fundamentally efficient about a single family living in a huge mansion with a 10KW energy demand and a big heated swimming pool. I would have guessed these things would be most attractive to hotels, universities, airports, truck stops, apartments and condos, and other institutional-scale places that have a significant round-the-clock demand for electricity and hot water. I wonder what it says about the device and the market that they're planning to sell to well-heeled homeowners first.
- regularfry 12y ago
  > I wonder what it says about the device and the market that they're planning to sell to well-heeled homeowners first. I think the key is in where he says a unit with a fifth the output wouldn't be a fifth the cost. If he can use the luxury end of the market to drive the manufacturing costs down, I'm sure general retail won't be far behind.
drudru11 12y ago
I agree. Also, given how bad fracking is, this is inferior to solar from an environmental perspective.

by joncp 12y ago

obvious_throw 12y ago

Renewables like wind and solar need EITHER enormous storage capacity, OR baseline supply to work with modern consumption patterns. Storage is both expensive and environmentally destructive - these engines could be a good fit for baseline generation to dramatically reduce the need for storage in a renewable system.

Sanddancer 12y ago

This is the first product, and is targeting areas where cheap natural gas is plentiful. However, because it's an external combustion engine, I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to build a future product where the heat differential is created from a different source, like solar tiles, or through geothermal differences.

maxerickson 12y ago

The electrical generation probably isn't more efficient, but the household/facility is, at least during times it has a use for the waste heat. The waste heat will be roughly 50% of the energy involved. The difference between the generators won't be that big. So each unit of fuel provides more energy to the end user (which is what I am calling efficiency, the energy utilized for something vs the energy consumed making it available).

Lagged2Death 12y ago

I'm skeptical that a small in-home generator of any type could compete with the efficiency of a commercial power plant, even if that plant burns natural gas. A small local generator will certainly be behind what a big commercial generator will do, but if the waste heat is also being harnessed ("Combined Heat and Power," or CHP), combined efficiencies of 60%-80% are possible. Commercial electrical generation is typically around 40% efficient, so CHP really can offer very big benefits. Of course, there's nothing fundamentally efficient about a single family living in a huge mansion with a 10KW energy demand and a big heated swimming pool. I would have guessed these things would be most attractive to hotels, universities, airports, truck stops, apartments and condos, and other institutional-scale places that have a significant round-the-clock demand for electricity and hot water. I wonder what it says about the device and the market that they're planning to sell to well-heeled homeowners first.

regularfry 12y ago
> I wonder what it says about the device and the market that they're planning to sell to well-heeled homeowners first. I think the key is in where he says a unit with a fifth the output wouldn't be a fifth the cost. If he can use the luxury end of the market to drive the manufacturing costs down, I'm sure general retail won't be far behind.

drudru11 12y ago

I agree. Also, given how bad fracking is, this is inferior to solar from an environmental perspective.