5 ms·

Immigration system is totally broken from top to bottom, there is probably strong political incentive to keep it that way. Here are some tips that I got from p

by tn13 12y ago

Immigration system is totally broken from top to bottom, there is probably strong political incentive to keep it that way. Here are some tips that I got from people before I arrived in US. - Immigration officers are not the kind of people you are used to in your classroom or work environment. - They are mostly moderately educated, stuck in a clerical job without any purpose and do not know much about the outside world. - They might be jealous of people who might be younger and far more successful/high achievers then them. - Their job is to enforce rules within their powers. They dont give a damn about you and how good your intention is. Getting past them involves optimizing on the following variables. - That you have got impeccable paperwork. This needs to be conveyed using important keywords that they are looking for instead of other rubbish. For example for H1B workers if the officer asks, why you were in US on B1 via a year back you should say "For last 4 years I was a student in India doing my 4 year graduation in CS, I had arrived in US on B1 visa to publish my paper at Standford University" compared to "I was in US to publish my paper on Cost Effective Real Time Systems for Greenhouses". The officer might think that you were publishing newspaper or something. - Other important keywords for H1B immigrants are "specialized engineering", "4 year graduate program", "part of engineering team responsible for highly scalable/ specialized system in Java, Databases systems". "working out of XYZ company". - One should totally avoid words like "Hacker", "Startup", "small company", "disruptive change", "Venture Capital", "seed funding", "angel investors", "entrepreneurs". I remember when one H1B guy told the officer that he works for a Venture Capital he asked if it is the same company that has Capital One credit cards. - One should also use influential words that the officer is familiar with. For example "Director of our Company is Mr. X, who was a Vice President of Google Inc.", "Microsoft has invested X in us". "Our Company has turnover of 100M dollars" and so on. Keep the evidence handy. I think the lady here got into trouble because of she mentioned of Hackathon, Social Entrepreneurship, evolution as an individual etc. etc. If she had said that she works on a program recognized by UN and given the evidence to officer she would have probably got away with this.

patio11 12y ago
I'd quibble with some of these, but in general, you want to a) provide exactly as much information required to exactly match the published requirements of the relevant legislation and b) provide nothing else. You're not attempting to be persuasive, you're attempting to manipulate a state machine. Provide exactly the required input required to trigger transitions from the start to Approved then provide no other input except for such pleasantries as are proper in polite society. (Works in Japan, too.)
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  I disagree with the last part. Avoid pleasantries. Don't ask the officer how they are doing today. Don't compliment them. Don't comment on the weather. These are considered proper pleasantries in polite society, but they can make the officer think you're being overly friendly in order to hide something. When you arrive at the counter, simply say "hello sir/ma'am", hand your documents, carefully listen to and obey instructions (such as fingerprints), answer any questions in a clear, concise manner, and then end the interaction with "thank you sir/ma'am."
  - transitorykris 12y ago
    Yes, answer the questions asked, no more. The reason for this is that the more you say the more questions it can create. The more questions, the greater the stress, and greater likelihood of making a mistake in your answers.. and this will lead to secondary screening and suffering.
  - jlees 12y ago
    I've always had great, pleasant conversations with my CBP officers (is that the correct term?). I remember having a long chat with one of them (there was no line) about Google Books and how his wife loved ebooks. Another talked about his Android phone. Didn't start out with that of course, but usually once they realised I worked for Google it was off to the races. Being a native English speaker (Brit) and entering via SFO probably had huge amounts to do with it as well -- just wanted to point out that sometimes they can be pretty nice people and you can have a friendly conversation! (On the flip-side my husband was very nearly deported because the border agent at LAX found my Safeway card in his wallet when he was re-entering on a visa waiver. Agent told him if he'd come along later in the day it would have been over, but he was the first borderline case and seemed like a nice guy.)
    - smsm42 12y ago
      I'd say it's probably the same reason as "don't talk to the police". There's very few things that you can tell to make you better (usually those will be asked from you anyway - like where you're working, where you live, where you're going, etc. - and even there precise concise answers probably better than vague verbose ones) but a real lot of things that you can tell to make you worse, even without realizing it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- justizin 12y ago
  It can be just as insane as a US Citizen traveling to other countries. A couple of years ago, with a comfy severance in the bank, I traveled to Canada to visit a lady I'd become involved with, who had traveled to the US to visit me multiple times. It was the first time I'd ever traveled not on business, definitely the first time since 9/11 where I didn't clear customs in the company of my coworkers and boss, and it only took a couple of seconds after not answering 'business' as my reason for travel that I realized how insane the opposition people face to just traveling from one country to another as an individual. I could probably have gotten through the process more quickly, but after spending a couple of hours - during which time I missed my connecting flight and couldn't contact the person waiting at a rural airport for me - I saw a Chinese and an Indian family treated abhorrently, as well as a german student headed to nanny for a family friend for the summer treated with insane harshness. It was clear the Indian and Chinese families, both of whom seemed to be bringing a matriarch home, had learned to travel as a large unit so that multiple people spoke english and were familiar with Canadian law and so that when they were inevitably held, they would be held together. The german student seemed a likely victim of a friend trying to talk them up, when the immigration officer called their friend, somehow the story didn't match 100%, and they were told to dig through their email and produce evidence. When I discussed this with other Canadians during my visit, they said it was very common, and that what the German student experienced could have been as simple as correctly responding that they would not be employed, but would be working for a family friend in exchange for room and board, and the friend may have thought that it made them look better to say, "Oh, of course he will be employed / working!". Anyway, in my case they found it incredibly suspicious that I had over $10k in my bank account, was not currently employed, and was planning to stay for some weeks. I lectured them on how there are no fucking jobs for me in their country (the younger agent nodded, as if to say, 'no shit), and how it would be kind of absurd for an engineer to illegally immigrate from silicon valley to canada. Eventually they threatened to deny me entry to the country for smuggling, based on a speck of green plant material they found in the seam of my backpack. Fucking Hosers, I won't likely return under any circumstances, but I know that's how our EU and Latin American friends feel about the US.
nl 12y ago
I noticed the author's Medium bio starts with 'A perennial vagabond'. It could be worth revisiting that language too.
Angostura 12y ago
I think you're broadly correct. The issue is identified in these two sentences for me: > I slowly explained that I’m a social entrepreneur promoting global change through the concept of ‘hackathons’ where attendees work together and find solutions to community issues within a tight time constraint... We spoke two totally different languages I'm sure that's the case. The office wanted to know what she did, She offered something that sounded like am elevator pitch - it failed to give them the reassurances that they needed to make an easy judgement about her work status. Add a paper-work mix up on top of that, and I'm not too surprised they popped an X in the box and went to get a coffee.

by tn13 12y ago

patio11 12y ago

I'd quibble with some of these, but in general, you want to a) provide exactly as much information required to exactly match the published requirements of the relevant legislation and b) provide nothing else. You're not attempting to be persuasive, you're attempting to manipulate a state machine. Provide exactly the required input required to trigger transitions from the start to Approved then provide no other input except for such pleasantries as are proper in polite society. (Works in Japan, too.)

enraged_camel 12y ago
I disagree with the last part. Avoid pleasantries. Don't ask the officer how they are doing today. Don't compliment them. Don't comment on the weather. These are considered proper pleasantries in polite society, but they can make the officer think you're being overly friendly in order to hide something. When you arrive at the counter, simply say "hello sir/ma'am", hand your documents, carefully listen to and obey instructions (such as fingerprints), answer any questions in a clear, concise manner, and then end the interaction with "thank you sir/ma'am."
- transitorykris 12y ago
  Yes, answer the questions asked, no more. The reason for this is that the more you say the more questions it can create. The more questions, the greater the stress, and greater likelihood of making a mistake in your answers.. and this will lead to secondary screening and suffering.
- jlees 12y ago
  I've always had great, pleasant conversations with my CBP officers (is that the correct term?). I remember having a long chat with one of them (there was no line) about Google Books and how his wife loved ebooks. Another talked about his Android phone. Didn't start out with that of course, but usually once they realised I worked for Google it was off to the races. Being a native English speaker (Brit) and entering via SFO probably had huge amounts to do with it as well -- just wanted to point out that sometimes they can be pretty nice people and you can have a friendly conversation! (On the flip-side my husband was very nearly deported because the border agent at LAX found my Safeway card in his wallet when he was re-entering on a visa waiver. Agent told him if he'd come along later in the day it would have been over, but he was the first borderline case and seemed like a nice guy.)
  - smsm42 12y ago
    I'd say it's probably the same reason as "don't talk to the police". There's very few things that you can tell to make you better (usually those will be asked from you anyway - like where you're working, where you live, where you're going, etc. - and even there precise concise answers probably better than vague verbose ones) but a real lot of things that you can tell to make you worse, even without realizing it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

justizin 12y ago
It can be just as insane as a US Citizen traveling to other countries. A couple of years ago, with a comfy severance in the bank, I traveled to Canada to visit a lady I'd become involved with, who had traveled to the US to visit me multiple times. It was the first time I'd ever traveled not on business, definitely the first time since 9/11 where I didn't clear customs in the company of my coworkers and boss, and it only took a couple of seconds after not answering 'business' as my reason for travel that I realized how insane the opposition people face to just traveling from one country to another as an individual. I could probably have gotten through the process more quickly, but after spending a couple of hours - during which time I missed my connecting flight and couldn't contact the person waiting at a rural airport for me - I saw a Chinese and an Indian family treated abhorrently, as well as a german student headed to nanny for a family friend for the summer treated with insane harshness. It was clear the Indian and Chinese families, both of whom seemed to be bringing a matriarch home, had learned to travel as a large unit so that multiple people spoke english and were familiar with Canadian law and so that when they were inevitably held, they would be held together. The german student seemed a likely victim of a friend trying to talk them up, when the immigration officer called their friend, somehow the story didn't match 100%, and they were told to dig through their email and produce evidence. When I discussed this with other Canadians during my visit, they said it was very common, and that what the German student experienced could have been as simple as correctly responding that they would not be employed, but would be working for a family friend in exchange for room and board, and the friend may have thought that it made them look better to say, "Oh, of course he will be employed / working!". Anyway, in my case they found it incredibly suspicious that I had over $10k in my bank account, was not currently employed, and was planning to stay for some weeks. I lectured them on how there are no fucking jobs for me in their country (the younger agent nodded, as if to say, 'no shit), and how it would be kind of absurd for an engineer to illegally immigrate from silicon valley to canada. Eventually they threatened to deny me entry to the country for smuggling, based on a speck of green plant material they found in the seam of my backpack. Fucking Hosers, I won't likely return under any circumstances, but I know that's how our EU and Latin American friends feel about the US.

nl 12y ago

I noticed the author's Medium bio starts with 'A perennial vagabond'. It could be worth revisiting that language too.

Angostura 12y ago

I think you're broadly correct. The issue is identified in these two sentences for me: > I slowly explained that I’m a social entrepreneur promoting global change through the concept of ‘hackathons’ where attendees work together and find solutions to community issues within a tight time constraint... We spoke two totally different languages I'm sure that's the case. The office wanted to know what she did, She offered something that sounded like am elevator pitch - it failed to give them the reassurances that they needed to make an easy judgement about her work status. Add a paper-work mix up on top of that, and I'm not too surprised they popped an X in the box and went to get a coffee.