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I think the key is in whether these languages get the backing of a Big Institution. Tech people are simultaneously sensitive and oblivious to the political natu
by chipsy 12y ago
I think the key is in whether these languages get the backing of a Big Institution. Tech people are simultaneously sensitive and oblivious to the political nature of what technologies interest them: For example, all the coverage of Swift is because Apple is backing it. All the coverage of Go is because it has some famous people behind it plus the tacit support of Google. All the coverage of Rust is because it's backed by Mozilla. But when asked directly about their interest most coders will proclaim that it's simply because the technology in these things is better, even though there were plenty of languages that had similar features and implementation quality beforehand. Nobody - especially not people caught within the politics of their own company - has the time or depth of experience to be completely confident about what they would need from a new language and why, so social signalling and appeal to authority tends to rule the day: "No one ever got fired for buying IBM." And so, intentionally or no, people come out of the woodwork to position themselves as early adopters of the "next IBM."
That said, in the long run I think the APIs and tooling experience matters. Free Pascal basically hangs on because Delphi did so well as a third-party environment, even though it was always marginalized on Windows for not being a Microsoft-anointed language. But the Delphi experience was related to the era of the Windows desktop application, and when the market's interest moved away from that the magic was kind of lost. Ada likewise has hung on because it has that gov/mil influence behind it - and its ecosystem is still mostly centered around commercial development environments.
- Dewie 12y agoIn the case of Rust, I think the hype actually is well-founded, technically. It is aiming for a niche that I have seen no one claim that any other language has accomplished to fill before. So unless you know of some languages that have memory safety with no form of enforced garbage collection (it's part of the library, but completely optional), I'll say that Rust has merit on its own, no matter what organization is backing it.
- lucian1900 12y agoATS can also do that.
- Dewie 12y agoDarn, forgot about that one. ATS does seem to get considerably less mention than Rust, which may be because of marketing and/or because it is even more scary than Rust (dependent types, oh my).
- lucian1900 12y agoIt's also rather unwieldy to use, much more so than other dependently typed languages (like Idris). Sadly, despite having useful-looking properties, I suspect it'll serve as little more than inspiration for others.
- Dewie 12y agoIt might be that it could serve the niche in which code has to be really performant, and you also need "complete" (to a strict degree) safety guarantees, and Rust can not give enough guarantees in that regard (and it is unacceptable to have a lot of unsafe-blocks). It could even complement Rust, in that regard. The biggest problem might be that ATS looks like a very intimidating language already (I have not tried it myself, so that is just my impression, but the creator seems to share the same sentiment), which might a bit too much of a burden for this purpose.