6 ms·

I think Rust has been bad for me. I'm interviewing for my first technical role at the moment and all I keep talking about is how much I love Rust and look at th

by adwhit 12y ago

I think Rust has been bad for me. I'm interviewing for my first technical role at the moment and all I keep talking about is how much I love Rust and look at these cool things I made in Rust and I want to program in Rust all the time. I mainly receive bemused looks. "We use Java."

pjmlp 12y ago
If you are applying to the enterprise that won't change in foreseeable future. Worse, Java really means Java and not any alternative language for the JVM.
- shmerl 12y ago
  > If you are applying to the enterprise that won't change in foreseeable future. That depends. Not all are bought on the Java hype from the past but it surely is still widespread.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    The remaining ones are on .NET. At least on my little spot in the World.
  - kibwen 12y ago
    > Not all are bought on the Java hype It's true, my venerable enterprise company prefers RPG-IV and PHP. :)
ossreality 12y ago
Run, run away. I still have to use the tools my team uses, but at least I work with people who are interested in something better.
Mr_P 12y ago
You could try looking for positions doing C++ development, and specifically with companies which have embraced the new C++11 features. Rust is extremely close in style to idiomatic modern C++, but with greater static safety guarantees.
- humanrebar 12y ago
  Runtime polymorphism is very different in Rust, and sum types are prolific in the standard library, so I'm not sure how "extremely close" it is to C++11. But there are many similarities in other areas, such as memory safety through references with ownership semantics.
shmerl 12y ago
> I mainly receive bemused looks. "We use Java." Yeah, that happens. You probably should just skip those places to begin with :) I second those who mentioned C++ in the comments. Those places have more chances of appreciating Rust.
chillingeffect 12y ago
What platform have you been working on? Win7 works ok for me, but I've tried to install rust in Ubuntu and Lubuntu (13.10 and 14.04) and get errors during the install. I was following these directions: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/wiki/Note-getting-started-developing-Rust https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/wiki/Note-getting-started-...
- steveklabnik 12y ago
  If you jump into IRC[1], we can help you out with that. Most people have the opposite problem: hard on Windows, easy on Ubuntu! I myself run Ubuntu at the moment, so I can certainly help. 1: #rust on irc.mozilla.org, or http://chat.mibbit.com/?server=irc.mozilla.org&channel=%23rust http://chat.mibbit.com/?server=irc.mozilla.org&channel=%23ru...
  - chillingeffect 12y ago
    Thanks very much. It turns out default mem settings in VirtualBox weren't large enough. On IRC they recommended 2.0 GB of ram and that worked for me! ready to rock...
    - steveklabnik 12y ago
      Ah ha! Yeah, http://huonw.github.io/isrustfastyet/mem/ http://huonw.github.io/isrustfastyet/mem/
kibwen 12y ago
I've been following Rust for a long time, and though I'm happy to see how popular it's become I'm also a bit wary. When people become attached to an exciting new language, in their elation they tend to envision using it in every context imaginable. But most languages are designed for a particular (and possibly narrow) domain. As you venture further from that domain, things begin to unravel. Example: after giving a presentation at a recent Rust meetup, someone asked me if they could use Rust as a scripting language. My response was something along the lines of, "sure, it's as Turing-complete as any other language, but why would you want to?" Mostly I would like people to acknowledge that different languages exist to serve different needs, and that there does not and will never exist One Language To Rule Them All. Rust is a low-level systems language, and it's optimized very, very well for that niche. I'm very happy if you want to use it all time, for everything! But please continue to evaluate it as a systems programming language. There are very good reasons for every feature in the language, but many of those reasons may seem entirely superfluous if you don't appreciate the context in which they were made.
- meddlepal 12y ago
  I agree with the use the right language for the job sentiment, but most developers work for other people's businesses and engineering is just as much about designing and building something as maintaining and growing it. I can definitely see why some engineers would want a single "magic bullet" type language that can do everything from replace shell scripting to building complex distributed systems; it's easier to hire people to maintain that program 10 years down the road.
  - kibwen 12y ago
    I acknowledge that irrational managers may dictate a single language to fulfill all purposes, but I disagree that sticking to a single language for your entire stack makes it easier to hire people. If you can learn Java, you can learn Python. I'm also not trying to encourage unchecked language proliferation; you can get by with one language for applications, one language for scripting, and, if necessary, one language for all the lower-level stuff.

by adwhit 12y ago

pjmlp 12y ago

If you are applying to the enterprise that won't change in foreseeable future. Worse, Java really means Java and not any alternative language for the JVM.

shmerl 12y ago
> If you are applying to the enterprise that won't change in foreseeable future. That depends. Not all are bought on the Java hype from the past but it surely is still widespread.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  The remaining ones are on .NET. At least on my little spot in the World.
- kibwen 12y ago
  > Not all are bought on the Java hype It's true, my venerable enterprise company prefers RPG-IV and PHP. :)

ossreality 12y ago

Run, run away. I still have to use the tools my team uses, but at least I work with people who are interested in something better.

Mr_P 12y ago

You could try looking for positions doing C++ development, and specifically with companies which have embraced the new C++11 features. Rust is extremely close in style to idiomatic modern C++, but with greater static safety guarantees.

humanrebar 12y ago
Runtime polymorphism is very different in Rust, and sum types are prolific in the standard library, so I'm not sure how "extremely close" it is to C++11. But there are many similarities in other areas, such as memory safety through references with ownership semantics.

shmerl 12y ago

> I mainly receive bemused looks. "We use Java." Yeah, that happens. You probably should just skip those places to begin with :) I second those who mentioned C++ in the comments. Those places have more chances of appreciating Rust.

chillingeffect 12y ago

What platform have you been working on? Win7 works ok for me, but I've tried to install rust in Ubuntu and Lubuntu (13.10 and 14.04) and get errors during the install. I was following these directions: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/wiki/Note-getting-started-developing-Rust https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/wiki/Note-getting-started-...

steveklabnik 12y ago
If you jump into IRC[1], we can help you out with that. Most people have the opposite problem: hard on Windows, easy on Ubuntu! I myself run Ubuntu at the moment, so I can certainly help. 1: #rust on irc.mozilla.org, or http://chat.mibbit.com/?server=irc.mozilla.org&channel=%23rust http://chat.mibbit.com/?server=irc.mozilla.org&channel=%23ru...
- chillingeffect 12y ago
  Thanks very much. It turns out default mem settings in VirtualBox weren't large enough. On IRC they recommended 2.0 GB of ram and that worked for me! ready to rock...
  - steveklabnik 12y ago
    Ah ha! Yeah, http://huonw.github.io/isrustfastyet/mem/ http://huonw.github.io/isrustfastyet/mem/

kibwen 12y ago

I've been following Rust for a long time, and though I'm happy to see how popular it's become I'm also a bit wary. When people become attached to an exciting new language, in their elation they tend to envision using it in every context imaginable. But most languages are designed for a particular (and possibly narrow) domain. As you venture further from that domain, things begin to unravel. Example: after giving a presentation at a recent Rust meetup, someone asked me if they could use Rust as a scripting language. My response was something along the lines of, "sure, it's as Turing-complete as any other language, but why would you want to?" Mostly I would like people to acknowledge that different languages exist to serve different needs, and that there does not and will never exist One Language To Rule Them All. Rust is a low-level systems language, and it's optimized very, very well for that niche. I'm very happy if you want to use it all time, for everything! But please continue to evaluate it as a systems programming language. There are very good reasons for every feature in the language, but many of those reasons may seem entirely superfluous if you don't appreciate the context in which they were made.

meddlepal 12y ago
I agree with the use the right language for the job sentiment, but most developers work for other people's businesses and engineering is just as much about designing and building something as maintaining and growing it. I can definitely see why some engineers would want a single "magic bullet" type language that can do everything from replace shell scripting to building complex distributed systems; it's easier to hire people to maintain that program 10 years down the road.
- kibwen 12y ago
  I acknowledge that irrational managers may dictate a single language to fulfill all purposes, but I disagree that sticking to a single language for your entire stack makes it easier to hire people. If you can learn Java, you can learn Python. I'm also not trying to encourage unchecked language proliferation; you can get by with one language for applications, one language for scripting, and, if necessary, one language for all the lower-level stuff.