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don't always believe what you read here, there are a lot of Russians who want to relive the glory days, real or perceived. Just because we in the West don't lik

don't always believe what you read here, there are a lot of Russians who want to relive the glory days, real or perceived. Just because we in the West don't like him doesn't mean much to them, if anything it might bolster his image there. plus, considering what our President(s) do/done where do we have room to brag/gloat? I cannot find those news articles where Putin is using drones to kill his citizens abroad.

exelius 12y ago
This is spot on. Russians had a ton of structure for ~70 years, then one day all of that disappeared. Outside the big cities, things did kind of go to shit for a long time, with many youth addicted to drugs or simply jobless and desperate. This led to a rise in extreme nationalism among the youth, who pine for the "good old days" when Russia was a global superpower. You know those racist, alcoholic rednecks in Alabama who fly confederate flags, praise Jesus and love America? Russia has a lot of those. Except the government actively encourages their insanity, because redirecting their furor at outside forces (Ukraine/Crimea, US, the EU, etc) distracts from the kleptocracy that runs the country and has quietly been consolidating wealth and business ownership into the hands of a very small group of oligarchs. Putin is a hero to these guys; he projects a nationalist ideology onto the global stage, where Russia is the bully that gets its way. Not saying the US doesn't do its share of geopolitically shady crap (NSA spying, etc) but it never reached these levels of crazy. What Russia and Putin are doing is very reminiscent of Nazi Germany, and not in a "they're acting line Nazis" kind of way. By promoting the dangerous idea that "ethnic Russians" in other countries need protection, it elevates that nationalism to the point where it can be used as a context for an invasion of a country. Never mind that the idea of "ethnic Russian" could apply to any person living in a country that was formerly part of the USSR.
- insuffi 12y ago
  Just to make it clear, I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs regarding nationalism and alcoholism, but your apologetic attitude for the US is somewhat worrying. Except for Ukraine, which is a controversial subject, when was the last time Russia directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments? Now, how about the US in the last 14 years - Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Haiti, Gaza Strip, Somalia, Iran, Lybia and Syria. Does that not come off as "crazy" to you? EDIT: oops, sorry. Forgot Yemen and Pakistan, against whom there is no official declaration of war either.
  - BugBrother 12y ago
    First, let me note that it isn't really relevant to complain about a second party as "answer" to criticism of a first one. Check http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grozny_ballistic_missile_attack http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grozny_ballistic_missile_atta... Or other information about Russian atrocities in that war. (The whole point with drones is that they are pinpoint attacks, with relatively low civilian casualities.) And USA is a tempering influence, re Gaza. Consider what would happens if Finland or a Baltic country used rocket artillery against St Petersburg? No, better to not consider that... (shudder.) The same goes for most of your other examples.
    - insuffi 12y ago
      1) That was not what I was doing. He was comparing Russia and the U.S. in the last paragraph, so it was very relevant. 2) If we're talking about atrocities, let's talk about 100,000 casualties in Iraq.(most conservative estimate). Additionally, 2,400 dead from drone strokes. Most, if not all, without due process in Pakistan and Yemen. 3) Tempering influence? Are you serious? Is it tempering to overthrow governments and install new ones while denationalizing oil contracts? I heard Lybia's a democracy now and not a shithole. U.S. is just as bad as Russia. Your time of being the beacon of light and democracy is gone.
      - BugBrother 12y ago
        >>Tempering influence? Are you serious? Is it tempering to overthrow governments "Tempering influence" was specifically about Gaza. But you know that. >>100,000 casualties in Iraq First, let me note I am not defending the Iraq invasion. Not because I cares about the rights of evil juntas, but because it was so badly managed it even increased the suffering. Second, those in Iraq were mainly killed in a civil war by people also trying to kill Americans. It is not trivial to blame Americans for that... I think you know that, too. About drone strikes -- both the Pakistani and Yemeni governments accepted them. In Pakistan unofficially, because the extremists targets polticians/media/etc with the "wrong" opinions. I think you know that, third... Etc. Edit: I might add that I'm not American. Please keep personal attacks relevant at least, propagandist.
pyre 12y ago
> I cannot find those news articles where Putin is using drones to kill his citizens abroad. Maybe that's because of lack of free Russian media...

exelius 12y ago

This is spot on. Russians had a ton of structure for ~70 years, then one day all of that disappeared. Outside the big cities, things did kind of go to shit for a long time, with many youth addicted to drugs or simply jobless and desperate. This led to a rise in extreme nationalism among the youth, who pine for the "good old days" when Russia was a global superpower. You know those racist, alcoholic rednecks in Alabama who fly confederate flags, praise Jesus and love America? Russia has a lot of those. Except the government actively encourages their insanity, because redirecting their furor at outside forces (Ukraine/Crimea, US, the EU, etc) distracts from the kleptocracy that runs the country and has quietly been consolidating wealth and business ownership into the hands of a very small group of oligarchs. Putin is a hero to these guys; he projects a nationalist ideology onto the global stage, where Russia is the bully that gets its way. Not saying the US doesn't do its share of geopolitically shady crap (NSA spying, etc) but it never reached these levels of crazy. What Russia and Putin are doing is very reminiscent of Nazi Germany, and not in a "they're acting line Nazis" kind of way. By promoting the dangerous idea that "ethnic Russians" in other countries need protection, it elevates that nationalism to the point where it can be used as a context for an invasion of a country. Never mind that the idea of "ethnic Russian" could apply to any person living in a country that was formerly part of the USSR.

insuffi 12y ago
Just to make it clear, I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs regarding nationalism and alcoholism, but your apologetic attitude for the US is somewhat worrying. Except for Ukraine, which is a controversial subject, when was the last time Russia directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments? Now, how about the US in the last 14 years - Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Haiti, Gaza Strip, Somalia, Iran, Lybia and Syria. Does that not come off as "crazy" to you? EDIT: oops, sorry. Forgot Yemen and Pakistan, against whom there is no official declaration of war either.
- BugBrother 12y ago
  First, let me note that it isn't really relevant to complain about a second party as "answer" to criticism of a first one. Check http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grozny_ballistic_missile_attack http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grozny_ballistic_missile_atta... Or other information about Russian atrocities in that war. (The whole point with drones is that they are pinpoint attacks, with relatively low civilian casualities.) And USA is a tempering influence, re Gaza. Consider what would happens if Finland or a Baltic country used rocket artillery against St Petersburg? No, better to not consider that... (shudder.) The same goes for most of your other examples.
  - insuffi 12y ago
    1) That was not what I was doing. He was comparing Russia and the U.S. in the last paragraph, so it was very relevant. 2) If we're talking about atrocities, let's talk about 100,000 casualties in Iraq.(most conservative estimate). Additionally, 2,400 dead from drone strokes. Most, if not all, without due process in Pakistan and Yemen. 3) Tempering influence? Are you serious? Is it tempering to overthrow governments and install new ones while denationalizing oil contracts? I heard Lybia's a democracy now and not a shithole. U.S. is just as bad as Russia. Your time of being the beacon of light and democracy is gone.
    - BugBrother 12y ago
      >>Tempering influence? Are you serious? Is it tempering to overthrow governments "Tempering influence" was specifically about Gaza. But you know that. >>100,000 casualties in Iraq First, let me note I am not defending the Iraq invasion. Not because I cares about the rights of evil juntas, but because it was so badly managed it even increased the suffering. Second, those in Iraq were mainly killed in a civil war by people also trying to kill Americans. It is not trivial to blame Americans for that... I think you know that, too. About drone strikes -- both the Pakistani and Yemeni governments accepted them. In Pakistan unofficially, because the extremists targets polticians/media/etc with the "wrong" opinions. I think you know that, third... Etc. Edit: I might add that I'm not American. Please keep personal attacks relevant at least, propagandist.

pyre 12y ago

> I cannot find those news articles where Putin is using drones to kill his citizens abroad. Maybe that's because of lack of free Russian media...