5 ms·

They are not shocked when it happens. The attempt to force employes to stay on using non-compete agreements among other things is exactly because they know empl

They are not shocked when it happens. The attempt to force employes to stay on using non-compete agreements among other things is exactly because they know employees must move on to survive. They know very well that the failure to provide pensions and career progression will drive employees away so they use force and, quite frankly, terror to keep them with the company. Particularly lovely is the near universal marriage of at will employment agreements with non compete agreements. >It's really a wonder that technology workers haven't started forming some sort of union. -The average age kept perpetually at about 28 (meaning only about 5 years work experience) -The perpetual threat of tech labor imported from overseas. -The belief that professional association and (gasp!) unions are pure socialist evil or at least are for low paid looser. And if you think salary collusion and extra legal hiring agreements are shocking, just watch the response there would be to an effective professional association.

icebraining 12y ago
Professional association doesn't strike me as pure socialist evil, it strikes me as yet another group for protecting current workers from new competition[1]. I like that programming is a profession one can enter without having to go to the right schools and pay $15k to take the exam, thank you. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licensure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licensure
- whybroke 12y ago
  Unions could be mis-used that way. Like anything, they could also be misused in any way. The point of a Union is to protect employees from employers period. It is not to limit their own membership by restricting entry into a field nor to be a front for the mob nor to eat babies. Licensure is also a good idea. Of course no legislature will ever pass it nor any company ever honor it with out the clout of very large tech worker organization. More practical but less honorable would be an organization that fiercely funds large numbers of tech worker lobbyist since that is the only way the system actually works now. Also, since much of their lobbing would align with tech company interests, it would not be crushed with the same zeal.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    Unions could be mis-used that way. Like anything, they could also be misused in any way. The point of a Union is to protect employees from employers period. It is not to limit their own membership by restricting entry into a field nor to be a front for the mob nor to eat babies. When you're in a country where you have to get a license to braid hair, design interiors or manicure, you can't dismiss it as some exception that can be ignored. Licensure is also a good idea. Sure, if you're already in the industry, it's great. Lots of money to be made by keeping out those who can't afford to jump through the hoops. It's not like poor people really deserve to be programmers anyway.
    - whybroke 12y ago
      Is the job of braiding hair only for rich people in your country? Should your argument apply to doctors too? No restrictions on entering because people who don't go to med school will be locked out? But do come over to the US, you can work as a serf under H1B, have no protections and many legal restrictions, accumulate no pension and be fired on your 35th birthday. But you will love the fact the manicurist don't have to have to fill out any paperwork.
      - icebraining 12y ago
        In my country? No, I'm talking about the US: it cost a tuition of $16000 and two years to braid hair in Utah. In my left-wing European country we can braid hair without a license, thankfully, especially for the (mainly) African immigrants who find a job that way. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-illegal-to-braid-hair-without-a-license http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-...
        whybroke 12y ago
        Utah is an extreme right wing theocracy. Whatever happens in Utah is most certainly _not_ the work of unions.

icebraining 12y ago

Professional association doesn't strike me as pure socialist evil, it strikes me as yet another group for protecting current workers from new competition[1]. I like that programming is a profession one can enter without having to go to the right schools and pay $15k to take the exam, thank you. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licensure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licensure

whybroke 12y ago
Unions could be mis-used that way. Like anything, they could also be misused in any way. The point of a Union is to protect employees from employers period. It is not to limit their own membership by restricting entry into a field nor to be a front for the mob nor to eat babies. Licensure is also a good idea. Of course no legislature will ever pass it nor any company ever honor it with out the clout of very large tech worker organization. More practical but less honorable would be an organization that fiercely funds large numbers of tech worker lobbyist since that is the only way the system actually works now. Also, since much of their lobbing would align with tech company interests, it would not be crushed with the same zeal.
- icebraining 12y ago
  Unions could be mis-used that way. Like anything, they could also be misused in any way. The point of a Union is to protect employees from employers period. It is not to limit their own membership by restricting entry into a field nor to be a front for the mob nor to eat babies. When you're in a country where you have to get a license to braid hair, design interiors or manicure, you can't dismiss it as some exception that can be ignored. Licensure is also a good idea. Sure, if you're already in the industry, it's great. Lots of money to be made by keeping out those who can't afford to jump through the hoops. It's not like poor people really deserve to be programmers anyway.
  - whybroke 12y ago
    Is the job of braiding hair only for rich people in your country? Should your argument apply to doctors too? No restrictions on entering because people who don't go to med school will be locked out? But do come over to the US, you can work as a serf under H1B, have no protections and many legal restrictions, accumulate no pension and be fired on your 35th birthday. But you will love the fact the manicurist don't have to have to fill out any paperwork.
    - icebraining 12y ago
      In my country? No, I'm talking about the US: it cost a tuition of $16000 and two years to braid hair in Utah. In my left-wing European country we can braid hair without a license, thankfully, especially for the (mainly) African immigrants who find a job that way. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-illegal-to-braid-hair-without-a-license http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-...
      - whybroke 12y ago
        Utah is an extreme right wing theocracy. Whatever happens in Utah is most certainly _not_ the work of unions.