4 ms·

Governments are always trying to find a way to steal a bit of the magic of Silicon Valley, yet little attention is paid to copying California's stance on non-co

Governments are always trying to find a way to steal a bit of the magic of Silicon Valley, yet little attention is paid to copying California's stance on non-competes. It allows for a free-flow of talent that is just as important as the free-flow of capital. Washington State should copy that. Hilariously, in Washington State, you can even enforce a non-compete when you fire the employee.

jmspring 12y ago
There is a reason, despite having some real-estate in WA, I've refused to move up and work there. CA, despite some faults, has it's advantages (beyond superior weather).
- BrandonM 12y ago
  > CA, despite some faults... No pun intended?
tluyben2 12y ago
I'm not sure what the laws in CA are exactly, but here (EU) non competes don't work generally. If you are a programmer and you go work as a programmer for the competition then even if you signed stacks of non-competes, they cannot be enforced. Simply because you are a programmer and not allowing you to take that job would mean you are potentially without a job which is about the worst thing that could happen. Most non-competes refer to you resigning and taking clients with your but even that is hard to enforce. The basics are ; if you are a nice company to work for and with, you have nothing to fear.
- glandium 12y ago
  I know first hand of a few cases of non competes working (in France), and they all involved the ex-employer paying substantial amounts of money for the time the ex-employee was prevented from working for the competition.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - justincormack 12y ago
    Continuing to pay someone while they don't work is legal, and it is not a non compete. But you don;t have to take that option necessarily.
  - amirmc 12y ago
    Also known as garden leave. You're basically still 'employed' but you're kept out of the office with all access revoked. It's to put some distance between any time sensitive info from one job before you move onto the next. In the UK, I think the banks do this for three months. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave
    - danielweber 12y ago
      From discussions on HN, this is also common in the US finance sector.
  - tluyben2 12y ago
    Yes, which is a workaround as people get paid. If they didn't get paid it wouldn't work. As said; they are actually still employed but not working anymore.
  - izacus 12y ago
    Yep, it's same here in Slovenia: The original employer must continue to pay a "significant" part of employees pay as long as non-compete is in effect and has to state clearly that they will do so in 14 days after the employee has left the company. Otherwise the non-compete is void.
- nawitus 12y ago
  EU doesn't have a harmonized legislation on non-competes. They can certainly be enforced in Finland, even though they're unheard of with typical employees. Normally only executives have them.
  - tluyben2 12y ago
    Yeah shouldn've have said 'EU' but rather name countries. Still; everything I read so far contains 'within reason', the Finnish rules as well which means that when it gets to court (if ever) it'll be thrown out for most as non-competes are not reasonable in a lot of cases. Especially, like you say, for executives / top managers who actually carry deep knowledge of the company which can hurt them going to the competitor.
- bowlofpetunias 12y ago
  That's very unrealistic and naive. Non-competes are quite enforceable in the Netherlands, which is why me and many people I know refuse to sign them. Yes, companies that enforce them are rare and complete dicks, but they can and some will. Companies that won't don't need them either, so either way the negotiation about the non-compete becomes a very brief one.
  - walshemj 12y ago
    violates eu law in quite a few ways
kabdib 12y ago
When I moved to WA from CA, I was already working for a certain large software company. I asked HR if I had to re-sign the employee agreement. They said no. When I left them, they tried to do a non-compete on me. I pointed out that the agreement that I had signed didn't include one (since CA doesn't allow them) and they tried to go behind the scenes with lawyers anyway. Let's just say that it worked out pretty well.

jmspring 12y ago

There is a reason, despite having some real-estate in WA, I've refused to move up and work there. CA, despite some faults, has it's advantages (beyond superior weather).

BrandonM 12y ago
> CA, despite some faults... No pun intended?

tluyben2 12y ago

I'm not sure what the laws in CA are exactly, but here (EU) non competes don't work generally. If you are a programmer and you go work as a programmer for the competition then even if you signed stacks of non-competes, they cannot be enforced. Simply because you are a programmer and not allowing you to take that job would mean you are potentially without a job which is about the worst thing that could happen. Most non-competes refer to you resigning and taking clients with your but even that is hard to enforce. The basics are ; if you are a nice company to work for and with, you have nothing to fear.

glandium 12y ago
I know first hand of a few cases of non competes working (in France), and they all involved the ex-employer paying substantial amounts of money for the time the ex-employee was prevented from working for the competition.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- justincormack 12y ago
  Continuing to pay someone while they don't work is legal, and it is not a non compete. But you don;t have to take that option necessarily.
- amirmc 12y ago
  Also known as garden leave. You're basically still 'employed' but you're kept out of the office with all access revoked. It's to put some distance between any time sensitive info from one job before you move onto the next. In the UK, I think the banks do this for three months. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave
  - danielweber 12y ago
    From discussions on HN, this is also common in the US finance sector.
- tluyben2 12y ago
  Yes, which is a workaround as people get paid. If they didn't get paid it wouldn't work. As said; they are actually still employed but not working anymore.
- izacus 12y ago
  Yep, it's same here in Slovenia: The original employer must continue to pay a "significant" part of employees pay as long as non-compete is in effect and has to state clearly that they will do so in 14 days after the employee has left the company. Otherwise the non-compete is void.
nawitus 12y ago
EU doesn't have a harmonized legislation on non-competes. They can certainly be enforced in Finland, even though they're unheard of with typical employees. Normally only executives have them.
- tluyben2 12y ago
  Yeah shouldn've have said 'EU' but rather name countries. Still; everything I read so far contains 'within reason', the Finnish rules as well which means that when it gets to court (if ever) it'll be thrown out for most as non-competes are not reasonable in a lot of cases. Especially, like you say, for executives / top managers who actually carry deep knowledge of the company which can hurt them going to the competitor.
bowlofpetunias 12y ago
That's very unrealistic and naive. Non-competes are quite enforceable in the Netherlands, which is why me and many people I know refuse to sign them. Yes, companies that enforce them are rare and complete dicks, but they can and some will. Companies that won't don't need them either, so either way the negotiation about the non-compete becomes a very brief one.
- walshemj 12y ago
  violates eu law in quite a few ways

kabdib 12y ago

When I moved to WA from CA, I was already working for a certain large software company. I asked HR if I had to re-sign the employee agreement. They said no. When I left them, they tried to do a non-compete on me. I pointed out that the agreement that I had signed didn't include one (since CA doesn't allow them) and they tried to go behind the scenes with lawyers anyway. Let's just say that it worked out pretty well.