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Have you ever seen e.g. a pizza joint, bowling alley, etc shut down? You could write the letter that gets posted in the window with a Markov chain. It is prac

by patio11 12y ago

Have you ever seen e.g. a pizza joint, bowling alley, etc shut down? You could write the letter that gets posted in the window with a Markov chain. It is practically identical to the widely satirized language used by startups. "After 43 years in business, Joe's Pizza will be shutting down after July 10th. Thanks for your patronage over the years. We'll miss you." Modulo individual stylistic choices, this is the appropriate level of social niceties between a business and a customer. Joe's Pizza is not obligated to say that their bookkeeper embezzled $300k, they misjudged the pizza market, or Joe's heart just isn't in pizza anymore. You paid, you got your pie, and you and Joe are even.

smacktoward 12y ago
Yes, but most of these companies are selling services, not products. If I was buying a downloadable software product from them, the you-got-your-pie analogy would be more apt; sure, the company went out of business, but I still have the product I bought and can continue to use it. Services don't work like that; when the company goes away, the product goes "poof" and disappears. Even if you paid in advance for long term use of it! Which makes people confused and/or resentful. This is the downside of the Everything-As-A-Service model: services are a commitment. Customers aren't buying a product, really, so much as they're buying a relationship with you and your team. The only way you can sell a relationship is by convincing people that you're serious about it -- that you're in it for the long haul. So if the next week you announce that you really weren't...
- patio11 12y ago
  In selling actual services to businesses -- the kind they pay tens of thousands for -- they'd often prefer to have a relationship with you. And you do have a relationship. It is a professional relationship and governed by contracts. They owe you what is written in the invoice, you owe them what is written in the SOW, and after acceptance you're square. This actually comes up in negotiations. "We'll need a follow-up engagement in six months." "I might be available for a follow-up engagement in six months." "Can you guarantee it?" "I am amenable to selling you a guarantee." "Selling a guarantee? We don't want to pay extra. We just want to schedule an engagement six months from now, if we need one." "In that case, you can wait five months and ask to schedule an engagement. I'll generally try to slot you in, subject to my then-prevailing rates and availability." I think you think that using a SaaS gives you a free option on service next month. This is... an unusual understanding of how business services work. If you absolutely need continuity of service that is something you can buy. Many HNers do not understand that it is really freaking expensive. If you are paying $29 a month and don't remember signing custom language guaranteeing it you probably have not bought it.
  - bhewes 12y ago
    Windows XP being an example of something corporations paid millions to keep in service.
  - Silhouette 12y ago
    I think you think that using a SaaS gives you a free option on service next month. This is... an unusual understanding of how business services work. That might be true technically, but it's certainly a common expectation among organisations that use SaaS offerings. Moreover, it is a necessary expectation for many of those services to be commercially viable. Frequently the time and resources invested in integrating someone else's service will take a significant period to generate a net positive return and outsourcing will incur a significant degree of risk. If decision makers didn't have a good faith belief that a service they were planning to integrate would remain available for a useful period of time, approximately no-one would ever sign up in the first place. Obviously many businesses do offer services that, according to their fine print, do not provide any such guarantee. They rely on their potential customers either not noticing or not caring enough to prevent them from buying. (If you disagree, then if you'll forgive me for using a personal example for a moment, I invite you A/B test Appointment Reminder's current home page against a factually accurate version that does not make any claim that is undermined by the fine print in your Terms of Service. For example, instead of "Clients get a reminder call or text message prior to their appointment" in your main graphic, you could write "Clients might get a reminder call or text message prior to their appointment, or they might get it late or not at all.") IMHO, current trends like launching MVPs and exiting via acquihires are therefore poisoning the well. Potential customers of future services will, quite rightly, be suspicious of those services' reliability and longevity, and otherwise viable businesses may fail purely because of trust issues. In the interests of fair disclosure: My own businesses depend on very few such services, and without any exception I can immediately think of, either those services are conveniences rather than critical to business operations or their providers have given legally actionable guarantees about their intentions/exit scenarios.
    - patio11 12y ago
      I wasn't going to mention it, but since you asked, my answer when somebody asks this for AR on the publicly available plans is: "I have been in business since 2006. AR has been my main product focus since 2010. I don't have any current plans of exiting the business any time soon. At the same time, I'm a one-man operation. If you were to say you feel less sure that I'm going to be around than $COMPETITOR, I'd say you're probably right. I'd also say that you can always get me to answer your email and their CEO wouldn't even know much less care that you exist. Your call." ($COMPETITOR is a well-known company in the space with eight figures in revenue whose minimum buy-in is close to the maximum I've ever charged a client.) If you were on one of the non-publicly-available plans, you'd get language similar to "Vendor agrees to provide services as per the attached Statement of Work for the Contract Term as specified in the attached Statement of Work." That means exactly what it and related contractual terms say. It isn't like continuity of service is something that e.g. hospital systems suddenly realized they needed in 2004. They quite literally have similar contractual guarantees written in their contract for garbage disposal.
PhasmaFelis 12y ago
There's a difference between putting a brave face on failure, and telling people who depended on you how excited you are that you won't be serving them anymore.
rubiquity 12y ago
Joe's pizza stays in my body for 24 hours, hopefully. My data is in that service forever.
ama729 12y ago
Except an Incredible Journey is not a normal shut down, it's the shutdown of a company, because the buyer took the thing it was interested in and then ran away. So in your case, it should rather read: "After 43 years in business, Joe's Pizza will be shutting down after July 10th because of its acquisition by Pizza Hut, which will tore down the place and puts its own pizzeria here. Be happy we got rich!" People gets emotional with place they go to or things they use, you can think it's irrational, but it's just a fact of life.
- sogen 12y ago
  edited: " After 43 years in business, Joe's Pizza will be shutting down after July 10th because of its acquisition by Pizza Hut, which will tore down the place and leave nothing in here, zip, zero, nada. Be happy we got rich! Adios amigos! "

by patio11 12y ago

smacktoward 12y ago

Yes, but most of these companies are selling services, not products. If I was buying a downloadable software product from them, the you-got-your-pie analogy would be more apt; sure, the company went out of business, but I still have the product I bought and can continue to use it. Services don't work like that; when the company goes away, the product goes "poof" and disappears. Even if you paid in advance for long term use of it! Which makes people confused and/or resentful. This is the downside of the Everything-As-A-Service model: services are a commitment. Customers aren't buying a product, really, so much as they're buying a relationship with you and your team. The only way you can sell a relationship is by convincing people that you're serious about it -- that you're in it for the long haul. So if the next week you announce that you really weren't...

patio11 12y ago
In selling actual services to businesses -- the kind they pay tens of thousands for -- they'd often prefer to have a relationship with you. And you do have a relationship. It is a professional relationship and governed by contracts. They owe you what is written in the invoice, you owe them what is written in the SOW, and after acceptance you're square. This actually comes up in negotiations. "We'll need a follow-up engagement in six months." "I might be available for a follow-up engagement in six months." "Can you guarantee it?" "I am amenable to selling you a guarantee." "Selling a guarantee? We don't want to pay extra. We just want to schedule an engagement six months from now, if we need one." "In that case, you can wait five months and ask to schedule an engagement. I'll generally try to slot you in, subject to my then-prevailing rates and availability." I think you think that using a SaaS gives you a free option on service next month. This is... an unusual understanding of how business services work. If you absolutely need continuity of service that is something you can buy. Many HNers do not understand that it is really freaking expensive. If you are paying $29 a month and don't remember signing custom language guaranteeing it you probably have not bought it.
- bhewes 12y ago
  Windows XP being an example of something corporations paid millions to keep in service.
- Silhouette 12y ago
  I think you think that using a SaaS gives you a free option on service next month. This is... an unusual understanding of how business services work. That might be true technically, but it's certainly a common expectation among organisations that use SaaS offerings. Moreover, it is a necessary expectation for many of those services to be commercially viable. Frequently the time and resources invested in integrating someone else's service will take a significant period to generate a net positive return and outsourcing will incur a significant degree of risk. If decision makers didn't have a good faith belief that a service they were planning to integrate would remain available for a useful period of time, approximately no-one would ever sign up in the first place. Obviously many businesses do offer services that, according to their fine print, do not provide any such guarantee. They rely on their potential customers either not noticing or not caring enough to prevent them from buying. (If you disagree, then if you'll forgive me for using a personal example for a moment, I invite you A/B test Appointment Reminder's current home page against a factually accurate version that does not make any claim that is undermined by the fine print in your Terms of Service. For example, instead of "Clients get a reminder call or text message prior to their appointment" in your main graphic, you could write "Clients might get a reminder call or text message prior to their appointment, or they might get it late or not at all.") IMHO, current trends like launching MVPs and exiting via acquihires are therefore poisoning the well. Potential customers of future services will, quite rightly, be suspicious of those services' reliability and longevity, and otherwise viable businesses may fail purely because of trust issues. In the interests of fair disclosure: My own businesses depend on very few such services, and without any exception I can immediately think of, either those services are conveniences rather than critical to business operations or their providers have given legally actionable guarantees about their intentions/exit scenarios.
  - patio11 12y ago
    I wasn't going to mention it, but since you asked, my answer when somebody asks this for AR on the publicly available plans is: "I have been in business since 2006. AR has been my main product focus since 2010. I don't have any current plans of exiting the business any time soon. At the same time, I'm a one-man operation. If you were to say you feel less sure that I'm going to be around than $COMPETITOR, I'd say you're probably right. I'd also say that you can always get me to answer your email and their CEO wouldn't even know much less care that you exist. Your call." ($COMPETITOR is a well-known company in the space with eight figures in revenue whose minimum buy-in is close to the maximum I've ever charged a client.) If you were on one of the non-publicly-available plans, you'd get language similar to "Vendor agrees to provide services as per the attached Statement of Work for the Contract Term as specified in the attached Statement of Work." That means exactly what it and related contractual terms say. It isn't like continuity of service is something that e.g. hospital systems suddenly realized they needed in 2004. They quite literally have similar contractual guarantees written in their contract for garbage disposal.

PhasmaFelis 12y ago

There's a difference between putting a brave face on failure, and telling people who depended on you how excited you are that you won't be serving them anymore.

rubiquity 12y ago

Joe's pizza stays in my body for 24 hours, hopefully. My data is in that service forever.

ama729 12y ago

Except an Incredible Journey is not a normal shut down, it's the shutdown of a company, because the buyer took the thing it was interested in and then ran away. So in your case, it should rather read: "After 43 years in business, Joe's Pizza will be shutting down after July 10th because of its acquisition by Pizza Hut, which will tore down the place and puts its own pizzeria here. Be happy we got rich!" People gets emotional with place they go to or things they use, you can think it's irrational, but it's just a fact of life.

sogen 12y ago
edited: " After 43 years in business, Joe's Pizza will be shutting down after July 10th because of its acquisition by Pizza Hut, which will tore down the place and leave nothing in here, zip, zero, nada. Be happy we got rich! Adios amigos! "