3 ms·

Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? Were they also used (with or without their operators' consent) to conduct illegal sex trade? If such act

by delinka 12y ago

Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? Were they also used (with or without their operators' consent) to conduct illegal sex trade? If such activities were indeed happening without a site operators knowledge or consent, did law enforcement reach out to these operators in an attempt to curtail this activity? Too little information from EFF on this. I'll agree that seizure of a discussion forum is truly a big problem. Simply seizing one because someone disagrees with the topics under discussion is a big problem. Not informing the operator of illegal activity before seizing is potentially dirty (e.g. if the operator is not participating in or encouraging the illegal activity.) Seizure of anything without due process of law is unacceptable and must be rectified. But doing something illegal (regardless of whether it should be), having been brought before a court, having failed to defend oneself or overturn the law, and having property seized ... well, that's how it should work. So how did this particular case go exactly?

dragonwriter 12y ago
> Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? No, a substantial part of the site was the ads [1], dominated (numerically) by the "escorts" section [2], in which the listings [3] appear to sometimes be fairly direct offers of sex for money [4] (note the same is also true, to some extent, of the other sections) even from just the index pages (the actual individual ads often don't appear to be archived, and I don't really feel like spending time digging through the links to examine the examples that are.) I don't think arguing that the people arguing the site didn't know or intend it was being used to facilitate prostitution is credible given the publicly-available evidence. [1] archive [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classified... [2] archive, San Francisco (most significant region) example [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20130516182620/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/classified.php?catid=14 https://web.archive.org/web/20130516182620/http://classified... [3] archive, [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20121227140137/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/classified.php?catid=14&subcatid=10&offset=30&poffset=0&sort1=&sort2= https://web.archive.org/web/20121227140137/http://classified... [4] often using code terms/acronyms, but ones which, to avoid confusing the uninitiated, the forums have a glossary (posted by "redbook", not users); archive [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20130424045028/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID15/2.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130424045028/http://forum.myre...
myredbookuser 12y ago
As a user of myredbook, I used the service for finding sex workers via the classifieds section, and also reading reviews written about sex workers.
- mrbusr123 12y ago
  i can confirm that as a long time user as well
tinalumfoil 12y ago
> Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? As many pointed out above, no. The majority of the forums looks to be advertisements for prostitution [0]. > Were they also used (with or without their operators' consent) to conduct illegal sex trade? According to the FBI, "the website hosted advertisements for prostitutes, complete with explicit photos, lewd physical descriptions, menus of sexual services, hourly and nightly rates, and customer reviews of the prostitutes’ services" and the owner "engaged in more than twenty monetary transactions to launder the profits derived from the facilitation of prostitution" [1]. They are now looking to forfeit $5 million of those profits. > If such activities were indeed happening without a site operators knowledge or consent, did law enforcement reach out to these operators in an attempt to curtail this activity? While I couldn't find a source directly saying weather they did or did not, I would imagine it to be very difficult to collect enough evidence to go through with the forfeiture and trial while the future defendant knows they are being investigated. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20130319123304/http://forum.myredbook.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130319123304/http://forum.myre... [1] http://www.fbi.gov/sanfrancisco/press-releases/2014/california-operators-of-myredbook.com-website-arrested-for-facilitating-prostitution-and-money-laundering http://www.fbi.gov/sanfrancisco/press-releases/2014/californ...
- AJ007 12y ago
  The money laundering charge can be used to coerce the owner in to pleading guilty to whatever else they want to add to the list -- whether or not there is a case for it. Considering the age of the site, one would speculate that the owner may have said no to something the government politely asked for, and then ended up getting their insides turned out as a result. The EFF certainly could have done a better job on this one. I'm not familiar with the site, but this seems to be a very different situation than Craigslist ran in to.
bigbugbag 12y ago
> Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? Were they also used (with or without their operators' consent) to conduct illegal sex trade? The sites had classifieds[1] for "adult services" and discussion boards[2]. The facilitation of prostitution has probably to do with the ads[3] and the related paid services[4], the operator knew and made money out of it. The part of the forum mentioned in the eff post[5] has some usefulness (this one is even funny[6], as the reviews which ensure more safety for both customers and workers, similar to what silk road did for drugs. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classified... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20130423175831/http://forum.myredbook.com/cgi-bin/dcforum2/dcboard.pl https://web.archive.org/web/20130423175831/http://forum.myre... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20130522010311/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID15/430.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130522010311/http://forum.myre... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20130425190047/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID8/16403.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130425190047/http://forum.myre... [5] https://web.archive.org/web/20130724003117/http://forum.myredbook.com/forum/DCForumID15 https://web.archive.org/web/20130724003117/http://forum.myre... [6]: https://web.archive.org/web/20130508075213/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID15/3.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130508075213/http://forum.myre...

by delinka 12y ago

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? No, a substantial part of the site was the ads [1], dominated (numerically) by the "escorts" section [2], in which the listings [3] appear to sometimes be fairly direct offers of sex for money [4] (note the same is also true, to some extent, of the other sections) even from just the index pages (the actual individual ads often don't appear to be archived, and I don't really feel like spending time digging through the links to examine the examples that are.) I don't think arguing that the people arguing the site didn't know or intend it was being used to facilitate prostitution is credible given the publicly-available evidence. [1] archive [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classified... [2] archive, San Francisco (most significant region) example [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20130516182620/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/classified.php?catid=14 https://web.archive.org/web/20130516182620/http://classified... [3] archive, [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20121227140137/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/classified.php?catid=14&subcatid=10&offset=30&poffset=0&sort1=&sort2= https://web.archive.org/web/20121227140137/http://classified... [4] often using code terms/acronyms, but ones which, to avoid confusing the uninitiated, the forums have a glossary (posted by "redbook", not users); archive [NSFW] https://web.archive.org/web/20130424045028/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID15/2.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130424045028/http://forum.myre...

myredbookuser 12y ago

As a user of myredbook, I used the service for finding sex workers via the classifieds section, and also reading reviews written about sex workers.

mrbusr123 12y ago
i can confirm that as a long time user as well

tinalumfoil 12y ago

> Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? As many pointed out above, no. The majority of the forums looks to be advertisements for prostitution [0]. > Were they also used (with or without their operators' consent) to conduct illegal sex trade? According to the FBI, "the website hosted advertisements for prostitutes, complete with explicit photos, lewd physical descriptions, menus of sexual services, hourly and nightly rates, and customer reviews of the prostitutes’ services" and the owner "engaged in more than twenty monetary transactions to launder the profits derived from the facilitation of prostitution" [1]. They are now looking to forfeit $5 million of those profits. > If such activities were indeed happening without a site operators knowledge or consent, did law enforcement reach out to these operators in an attempt to curtail this activity? While I couldn't find a source directly saying weather they did or did not, I would imagine it to be very difficult to collect enough evidence to go through with the forfeiture and trial while the future defendant knows they are being investigated. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20130319123304/http://forum.myredbook.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130319123304/http://forum.myre... [1] http://www.fbi.gov/sanfrancisco/press-releases/2014/california-operators-of-myredbook.com-website-arrested-for-facilitating-prostitution-and-money-laundering http://www.fbi.gov/sanfrancisco/press-releases/2014/californ...

AJ007 12y ago
The money laundering charge can be used to coerce the owner in to pleading guilty to whatever else they want to add to the list -- whether or not there is a case for it. Considering the age of the site, one would speculate that the owner may have said no to something the government politely asked for, and then ended up getting their insides turned out as a result. The EFF certainly could have done a better job on this one. I'm not familiar with the site, but this seems to be a very different situation than Craigslist ran in to.

bigbugbag 12y ago

> Were these sites only (or primarily) discussion boards? Were they also used (with or without their operators' consent) to conduct illegal sex trade? The sites had classifieds[1] for "adult services" and discussion boards[2]. The facilitation of prostitution has probably to do with the ads[3] and the related paid services[4], the operator knew and made money out of it. The part of the forum mentioned in the eff post[5] has some usefulness (this one is even funny[6], as the reviews which ensure more safety for both customers and workers, similar to what silk road did for drugs. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classifieds.myredbook.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130423181042/http://classified... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20130423175831/http://forum.myredbook.com/cgi-bin/dcforum2/dcboard.pl https://web.archive.org/web/20130423175831/http://forum.myre... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20130522010311/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID15/430.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130522010311/http://forum.myre... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20130425190047/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID8/16403.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130425190047/http://forum.myre... [5] https://web.archive.org/web/20130724003117/http://forum.myredbook.com/forum/DCForumID15 https://web.archive.org/web/20130724003117/http://forum.myre... [6]: https://web.archive.org/web/20130508075213/http://forum.myredbook.com/dcforum2/DCForumID15/3.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130508075213/http://forum.myre...