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It's nice to propose Bitcoin as an alternative, but there's no "they didn't make it so you get your money back" system like pledges, is there? Also, I don't se

by rockdoe 12y ago

It's nice to propose Bitcoin as an alternative, but there's no "they didn't make it so you get your money back" system like pledges, is there? Also, I don't see how they qualify for PayPal donation status as a nonprofit, so the outcome of this was predictable by day 1 and entirely their fault.

ossreality 12y ago
That can be encoded in transactions easily.
tinkerrr 12y ago
Yes there is. See Assurance Contracts on the Bitcoin Protocol (they haven't been implemented yet though, I think): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_3:_Assurance_contracts https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_3:_Assurance_co...
- rockdoe 12y ago
  they haven't been implemented yet though, I think That's kind of a show-stopper, then. Saying that Bitcoin is an alternative to Paypal for these kind of Kickstarter-like efforts is just disingenuous and exposing your "customers" needlessly.
  - diminoten 12y ago
    They're in the protocol, no one's used them yet.
  - tinkerrr 12y ago
    Well, USD doesn't have that feature either, but we have central agencies we trust (e.g. kickstarter). There's no reason why that model cannot be used with Bitcoin (so nothing disingenuous as you claim). The real power of Bitcoin would be to be able to do this in a trust-less manner. It hasn't been implemented yet, but exists in the Bitcoin Protocol. You're welcome to take a shot at it, by the way, the core developer team is always looking for new developers.
    - cwyers 12y ago
      "Well, USD doesn't have that feature either, but we have central agencies we trust (e.g. kickstarter). There's no reason why that model cannot be used with Bitcoin (so nothing disingenuous as you claim)." Well, in this case, they're using one of those central agencies (PayPal). So using PayPal as the central agency on Bitcoin would be exactly the same, and using a different central agency is a change independent of the use of Bitcoin. "The real power of Bitcoin would be to be able to do this in a trust-less manner. It hasn't been implemented yet, but exists in the Bitcoin Protocol. You're welcome to take a shot at it, by the way, the core developer team is always looking for new developers." I don't know that 'Bitcoin has X if you write code to let Bitcoin do X' is quite the same as 'Bitcoin has X.' Lots of things can do X if I put in all the work to do X.
smackfu 12y ago
Bitcoin is better for the people being funded, but leaves no recourse for the funders if the project just runs away with their money.
- VMG 12y ago
  You can use multi-party escrow for that
  - smackfu 12y ago
    True, but then the project doesn't get the money until they ship, which means they pass up most of the benefits of crowdfunding.
couchand 12y ago
There's no reason that the crowdfunding platform couldn't hold the pledged Bitcoin in escrow, which seems like it would be pretty straightforward and transparent.

by rockdoe 12y ago

ossreality 12y ago

That can be encoded in transactions easily.

tinkerrr 12y ago

Yes there is. See Assurance Contracts on the Bitcoin Protocol (they haven't been implemented yet though, I think): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_3:_Assurance_contracts https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_3:_Assurance_co...

rockdoe 12y ago
they haven't been implemented yet though, I think That's kind of a show-stopper, then. Saying that Bitcoin is an alternative to Paypal for these kind of Kickstarter-like efforts is just disingenuous and exposing your "customers" needlessly.
- diminoten 12y ago
  They're in the protocol, no one's used them yet.
- tinkerrr 12y ago
  Well, USD doesn't have that feature either, but we have central agencies we trust (e.g. kickstarter). There's no reason why that model cannot be used with Bitcoin (so nothing disingenuous as you claim). The real power of Bitcoin would be to be able to do this in a trust-less manner. It hasn't been implemented yet, but exists in the Bitcoin Protocol. You're welcome to take a shot at it, by the way, the core developer team is always looking for new developers.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    "Well, USD doesn't have that feature either, but we have central agencies we trust (e.g. kickstarter). There's no reason why that model cannot be used with Bitcoin (so nothing disingenuous as you claim)." Well, in this case, they're using one of those central agencies (PayPal). So using PayPal as the central agency on Bitcoin would be exactly the same, and using a different central agency is a change independent of the use of Bitcoin. "The real power of Bitcoin would be to be able to do this in a trust-less manner. It hasn't been implemented yet, but exists in the Bitcoin Protocol. You're welcome to take a shot at it, by the way, the core developer team is always looking for new developers." I don't know that 'Bitcoin has X if you write code to let Bitcoin do X' is quite the same as 'Bitcoin has X.' Lots of things can do X if I put in all the work to do X.

smackfu 12y ago

Bitcoin is better for the people being funded, but leaves no recourse for the funders if the project just runs away with their money.

VMG 12y ago
You can use multi-party escrow for that
- smackfu 12y ago
  True, but then the project doesn't get the money until they ship, which means they pass up most of the benefits of crowdfunding.

couchand 12y ago

There's no reason that the crowdfunding platform couldn't hold the pledged Bitcoin in escrow, which seems like it would be pretty straightforward and transparent.