4 ms·

Except when that happens with credit cards you're protected from loss so it doesn't matter as a consumer.

danielweber 12y ago
In fact, you aren't out the money at all, ever. If someone steals my credit card and runs up $8000 in charges on it, I'm not out $8000. There is a piece of paper somewhere that says I owe $8000, but that's not being out the money. One might have a model of "net worth" as "total assets minus total debts," and normally it's a decent model, and this makes net worth go down. But illegitimate debts put a wrinkle in that model. Never underestimate the advantage of having money versus being owed money. (This is a start-up lesson, too.)
mrb 12y ago
How naive you are. You could basically be arrested and branded as a pedophile if your CC info is stolen: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7326736.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7326736.stm I recognize this is an extreme story, but you cannot claim that CC info theft "does not matter". When it happens, there are many ways in which it can turn in a big pile of hassle for you.
- coldtea 12y ago
  This is a BS, extremely naive argument in favor of bitcoin. For one, you can very much have the same happen to any bitcoin user, using their personal details online in such sites.
  - mrb 12y ago
    No. The point is that Bitcoin does not require you to share your billing info with the merchant. Therefore no info shared = no data leak possible = higher security.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      All those high profile merchants who accept bitcoins do require you to share your "billing info" so the argument is moot.
      - mrb 12y ago
        Understand this is an issue in the merchant's processes, not with Bitcoin. Your argument is like saying "seat belts in cars don't always make drivers safer, for one people may forget to buckle up and not benefit from increased safety".
        coldtea 12y ago
        >Understand this is an issue in the merchant's processes, not with Bitcoin Sure, but the end result is the same. It's irrelevant whose fault it is. Or, reversely, nothing prohibits buying with credit cards online to be done differently and be safe from such fraud (e.g one-off credit card numbers with token generators). But in the real world, credits cards are used the way we know, and merchants accepting bitcoin still ask for those details.
        mrb 12y ago
        "the end result is the same" No it is not: with Bitcoin, an attacker knowing your billing info cannot steal your coins. With your CC info, he can make fraudulent purchases (obviously). Even virtual credit cards are not safe from fraud. Some transactions over the maximum spending limit or expiration date might still go through [1]. This makes none of them truly single-use since multiple charges can go through. Also, they are a PITA to use especially if you want to regenerate a one-off CC number for every transaction (which nobody does - there is no such thing as a "token generator" as you claim). For these reasons banks have been in fact discontinuing virtual CC services over the last few years, eg. see [2]. By contrast, a Bitcoin transaction is truly a one-time payment that is cryptographically authorizing a specific payment amount to a specific address, and nothing more. [1] http://lifehacker.com/5831160/use-virtual-credit-card-numbers-to-shop-safely-online-keeping-in-mind-the-downsides http://lifehacker.com/5831160/use-virtual-credit-card-number... [2] http://slickdeals.net/f/6614180-discover-is-discontinuing-their-virtual-credit-card-vcc-system-secure-online-account-numbers http://slickdeals.net/f/6614180-discover-is-discontinuing-th...
- jusben1369 12y ago
  For better or worse MRB there are literally millions of cards stolen and compromised each year. And the biggest inconvenience 99% of these people suffer is waiting 4 days for a new one in the mail and having to remember to update their various subscriptions. So there might always be a horror story or two like the above but it's not really an effective rebuttal against the main point which is credit card fraud is not borne by the individual.

In fact, you aren't out the money at all, ever. If someone steals my credit card and runs up $8000 in charges on it, I'm not out $8000. There is a piece of paper somewhere that says I owe $8000, but that's not being out the money. One might have a model of "net worth" as "total assets minus total debts," and normally it's a decent model, and this makes net worth go down. But illegitimate debts put a wrinkle in that model. Never underestimate the advantage of having money versus being owed money. (This is a start-up lesson, too.)

mrb 12y ago

How naive you are. You could basically be arrested and branded as a pedophile if your CC info is stolen: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7326736.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7326736.stm I recognize this is an extreme story, but you cannot claim that CC info theft "does not matter". When it happens, there are many ways in which it can turn in a big pile of hassle for you.

coldtea 12y ago
This is a BS, extremely naive argument in favor of bitcoin. For one, you can very much have the same happen to any bitcoin user, using their personal details online in such sites.
- mrb 12y ago
  No. The point is that Bitcoin does not require you to share your billing info with the merchant. Therefore no info shared = no data leak possible = higher security.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    All those high profile merchants who accept bitcoins do require you to share your "billing info" so the argument is moot.
    - mrb 12y ago
      Understand this is an issue in the merchant's processes, not with Bitcoin. Your argument is like saying "seat belts in cars don't always make drivers safer, for one people may forget to buckle up and not benefit from increased safety".
      - coldtea 12y ago
        >Understand this is an issue in the merchant's processes, not with Bitcoin Sure, but the end result is the same. It's irrelevant whose fault it is. Or, reversely, nothing prohibits buying with credit cards online to be done differently and be safe from such fraud (e.g one-off credit card numbers with token generators). But in the real world, credits cards are used the way we know, and merchants accepting bitcoin still ask for those details.
        mrb 12y ago
        "the end result is the same" No it is not: with Bitcoin, an attacker knowing your billing info cannot steal your coins. With your CC info, he can make fraudulent purchases (obviously). Even virtual credit cards are not safe from fraud. Some transactions over the maximum spending limit or expiration date might still go through [1]. This makes none of them truly single-use since multiple charges can go through. Also, they are a PITA to use especially if you want to regenerate a one-off CC number for every transaction (which nobody does - there is no such thing as a "token generator" as you claim). For these reasons banks have been in fact discontinuing virtual CC services over the last few years, eg. see [2]. By contrast, a Bitcoin transaction is truly a one-time payment that is cryptographically authorizing a specific payment amount to a specific address, and nothing more. [1] http://lifehacker.com/5831160/use-virtual-credit-card-numbers-to-shop-safely-online-keeping-in-mind-the-downsides http://lifehacker.com/5831160/use-virtual-credit-card-number... [2] http://slickdeals.net/f/6614180-discover-is-discontinuing-their-virtual-credit-card-vcc-system-secure-online-account-numbers http://slickdeals.net/f/6614180-discover-is-discontinuing-th...
jusben1369 12y ago
For better or worse MRB there are literally millions of cards stolen and compromised each year. And the biggest inconvenience 99% of these people suffer is waiting 4 days for a new one in the mail and having to remember to update their various subscriptions. So there might always be a horror story or two like the above but it's not really an effective rebuttal against the main point which is credit card fraud is not borne by the individual.