5 ms·

People saying "she planned this" or that "she writes all legal-y" don't understand how this works. Consider that this is only a tiny snapshot of the entire (ho

by davidu 12y ago

People saying "she planned this" or that "she writes all legal-y" don't understand how this works. Consider that this is only a tiny snapshot of the entire (horrible) ordeal, selected by her lawyers to reflect the egregious components of their behavior, placed in contrast to her requests to cease. Of course they include the ones where she says stop, and the aggressor(s) persist. There could be, and likely is, far worse interactions, where she didn't say stop, that they didn't include in their exhibits. They will come to light later if this suit progresses. There are also probably texts that make her look bad, too. Where she lets it go, or even plays along. Maybe she was too tired that day to argue. Maybe she hoped it would stop if she answered questions. Who knows? I don't. But that doesn't make her guilty of any wrongdoing, or absolve them of their erroneous ways. People have a right to work in a harassment-free workplace, and employers have a duty to ensure it operates that way. That's all that will matter at the end of this. And from what's included in the suit, my quick read is that they are in a very bad spot, both ethically and legally. Sean Rad seems like a woefully and perilously unqualified CEO.

facepalm 12y ago
"horrible ordeal" - I'm sorry, but if you dislike your workplace, you can always quit. That's not to justify sexual harassment, but the picture you evoke of a "horrible ordeal" just seems next to impossible. An ordeal would have to go on for quite a while, and then the question really is why don't you quit.
- threeseed 12y ago
  Sorry but have you actually worked before because it's never that black/white. You may love/hate any combination of work, boss, people, culture, location, pay, politics, perks, title etc. Maybe it was the perfect job except for the sexual harassment. In which case just quitting isn't so simple.
  - facepalm 12y ago
    "it's never that black/white." Exactly - that is exactly what I am trying to say... I just can't stand the mob mentality on here.
- chaostheory 12y ago
  > then the question really is why don't you quit. Maybe her options didn't vest yet? Things aren't always simple.
  - facepalm 12y ago
    Well than the "horriblity" of her ordeal seems to have a price limit. It can't have been infinitely horrible. Also not sure what kind of contract a co-founder has. Supposed she stopped coming to work and "worked from home" - could they take away her options for that?
    - chaostheory 12y ago
      Yes
- halloprow 12y ago
  It was that much of a horrible ordeal that she dated the guy, got back with him, etc etc. It's like some messed up teenage reality TV show.
- peterwwillis 12y ago
  > I'm sorry, but if you dislike your workplace, you can always quit sounds a lot like "I'm sorry, but if you don't like racism, you can always move out of the south"
  - facepalm 12y ago
    There are lots and lots of companies, and 50% of the population are women. I am pretty sure there are some companies that aren't sexist.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Imagine for a moment that she had quit. Do you think that lets Tinder off the hook? She can still take legal action - an environment so horrible that a person feels the only option is to quit means "constructive dismissal" becomes a legal option.
  - facepalm 12y ago
    I said nothing about letting Tinder off the hook. I just took issue with the "horrible ordeal" suggestion. I take issue with the whole fantasy that is going on in people's minds when they hear "accusation of sexism". I think it is going to the courts now? Why not wait until both sides have been heard. It seems conceivable to me that women can be unpleasant to work with, too. There was a relationship involved, so some claims simply can not be true - if everything was so horrible, why were they in a relationship? Because women always fall for the jerks? Hardly...
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  I've been following your comments on HN for a while now -- I originally noticed that almost all of them are facepalm-worthy -- and you sound like a really angry, bitter person who hates women. So, let me ask out of genuine curiosity: do you get a kick out of continuously posting nonsense? Some sort of adrenaline rush maybe?
  - facepalm 12y ago
    I certainly don't hate women. I also think this Tinder-CEO sounds like a jerk. I just can't stand it if people jump to conclusions and form a mob without even bothering to listen to both sides of the story. And the way people don't even consider the implications of what they are saying. Like if they complain that somebody behaves like an insecure teenager - what does that mean, really? Should they be banned from ever holding a job? Should a squat team be called in to take him out, or perhaps a lynch mob of volunteers recruited on HN? People are only human. And here there was a relationship involved. Maybe people on HN just lack experience? And I am tired of the sexism sob story. I think the opposite is the case, really. People are falling over themselves to hire and to please women. Being opposed to feminism is not "hating women" or being against equality. I am opposed to feminism because I think they hurt both men and women and they got their story completely wrong. Feminism has nothing to do with equality whatsoever. Edit: OK, I'd really like to know: please show me one sentence that seems to show I hate women. Or what makes you think that I hate women?
    - enraged_camel 12y ago
      >>I just can't stand it if people jump to conclusions and form a mob without even bothering to listen to both sides of the story. Dude, this isn't a "he said, she said" scenario. We have written evidence, in the form of SMS messages and much more, that paints a very clear picture of the situation. I mean, did you read the complaint at all?
      - facepalm 12y ago
        I read the beginning of it now. It certainly sounds as if they were angry at each other. What do you think: they called her a whore just because she is a woman? I don't like people who call women whores. As I said, I also don't like the mob mentality on display here. I am sure all those things didn't happen just because she is a woman, there has to be some history. While it would never occur to me to call somebody a whore, I wonder how many people here who were ever in a relationship before never had a fight with their partner and never said anything mean to them? Of course washing dirty laundry in front of the company is completely stupid and out of place. Still - what is the appropriate punishment? And you haven't answered: what makes you think I hate women? I wonder how the typical co-founder ousting among male co-founders plays out. Do they typical just "agree to disagree" and stay friends? Or do they sometimes call each other names and start hating?

by davidu 12y ago

facepalm 12y ago

"horrible ordeal" - I'm sorry, but if you dislike your workplace, you can always quit. That's not to justify sexual harassment, but the picture you evoke of a "horrible ordeal" just seems next to impossible. An ordeal would have to go on for quite a while, and then the question really is why don't you quit.

threeseed 12y ago
Sorry but have you actually worked before because it's never that black/white. You may love/hate any combination of work, boss, people, culture, location, pay, politics, perks, title etc. Maybe it was the perfect job except for the sexual harassment. In which case just quitting isn't so simple.
- facepalm 12y ago
  "it's never that black/white." Exactly - that is exactly what I am trying to say... I just can't stand the mob mentality on here.
chaostheory 12y ago
> then the question really is why don't you quit. Maybe her options didn't vest yet? Things aren't always simple.
- facepalm 12y ago
  Well than the "horriblity" of her ordeal seems to have a price limit. It can't have been infinitely horrible. Also not sure what kind of contract a co-founder has. Supposed she stopped coming to work and "worked from home" - could they take away her options for that?
  - chaostheory 12y ago
    Yes
halloprow 12y ago
It was that much of a horrible ordeal that she dated the guy, got back with him, etc etc. It's like some messed up teenage reality TV show.
peterwwillis 12y ago
> I'm sorry, but if you dislike your workplace, you can always quit sounds a lot like "I'm sorry, but if you don't like racism, you can always move out of the south"
- facepalm 12y ago
  There are lots and lots of companies, and 50% of the population are women. I am pretty sure there are some companies that aren't sexist.
DanBC 12y ago
Imagine for a moment that she had quit. Do you think that lets Tinder off the hook? She can still take legal action - an environment so horrible that a person feels the only option is to quit means "constructive dismissal" becomes a legal option.
- facepalm 12y ago
  I said nothing about letting Tinder off the hook. I just took issue with the "horrible ordeal" suggestion. I take issue with the whole fantasy that is going on in people's minds when they hear "accusation of sexism". I think it is going to the courts now? Why not wait until both sides have been heard. It seems conceivable to me that women can be unpleasant to work with, too. There was a relationship involved, so some claims simply can not be true - if everything was so horrible, why were they in a relationship? Because women always fall for the jerks? Hardly...
enraged_camel 12y ago
I've been following your comments on HN for a while now -- I originally noticed that almost all of them are facepalm-worthy -- and you sound like a really angry, bitter person who hates women. So, let me ask out of genuine curiosity: do you get a kick out of continuously posting nonsense? Some sort of adrenaline rush maybe?
- facepalm 12y ago
  I certainly don't hate women. I also think this Tinder-CEO sounds like a jerk. I just can't stand it if people jump to conclusions and form a mob without even bothering to listen to both sides of the story. And the way people don't even consider the implications of what they are saying. Like if they complain that somebody behaves like an insecure teenager - what does that mean, really? Should they be banned from ever holding a job? Should a squat team be called in to take him out, or perhaps a lynch mob of volunteers recruited on HN? People are only human. And here there was a relationship involved. Maybe people on HN just lack experience? And I am tired of the sexism sob story. I think the opposite is the case, really. People are falling over themselves to hire and to please women. Being opposed to feminism is not "hating women" or being against equality. I am opposed to feminism because I think they hurt both men and women and they got their story completely wrong. Feminism has nothing to do with equality whatsoever. Edit: OK, I'd really like to know: please show me one sentence that seems to show I hate women. Or what makes you think that I hate women?
  - enraged_camel 12y ago
    >>I just can't stand it if people jump to conclusions and form a mob without even bothering to listen to both sides of the story. Dude, this isn't a "he said, she said" scenario. We have written evidence, in the form of SMS messages and much more, that paints a very clear picture of the situation. I mean, did you read the complaint at all?
    - facepalm 12y ago
      I read the beginning of it now. It certainly sounds as if they were angry at each other. What do you think: they called her a whore just because she is a woman? I don't like people who call women whores. As I said, I also don't like the mob mentality on display here. I am sure all those things didn't happen just because she is a woman, there has to be some history. While it would never occur to me to call somebody a whore, I wonder how many people here who were ever in a relationship before never had a fight with their partner and never said anything mean to them? Of course washing dirty laundry in front of the company is completely stupid and out of place. Still - what is the appropriate punishment? And you haven't answered: what makes you think I hate women? I wonder how the typical co-founder ousting among male co-founders plays out. Do they typical just "agree to disagree" and stay friends? Or do they sometimes call each other names and start hating?